Friday
Mar132009
What gives you the right?
Friday, March 13, 2009 Morals colliding.
We are all part of a society. Everyone is different and that is a good thing. Repeat to yourself and repeat to your children, "everyone is different and that's okay."
I'm perplexed and saddened when I hear about people that think breastfeeding in public is gross. They will all have different definitions of what is okay and what is not okay. Some say it is okay to breastfeed in public as long as you use a cover. Some say it is okay as long as you are "discreet" (by whose definition though...). Some say you should never breastfeed in front of other people no matter what. Women should hide in the bedroom to feed their children. They should not go out unless they are sure they can fit in that quick errand between feedings or unless they pump and take a bottle with them. If they do get stuck somewhere and it becomes necessary to breastfeed, they should use the bathroom.
I think these are stupid ideas. I really do. I reluctantly accept the fact that they are entitled to their opinion.
How do I show my respect for their opinion? I do try not to "let it all hang out". I don't use a nursing cover because I think it sends the message that breastfeeding is something to be hidden. However, I understand that some people do not want to see my breasts and I try to breastfeed discreetly. That means that I do not show more skin when breastfeeding than would be acceptable for anyone else that is not breastfeeding to show in that same environment. So please, don't have a hissy fit if you see 1 inch of my flesh when your wife is wearing a shirt that shows at least 3 times as much of her breasts. Being discreet isn't always easy if you have a wiggly baby and are trying to keep tabs on a toddler at the same time. But I try. I make that effort. Not for me, but for you.
But people tell me, "I don't want my children to see THAT. I might have to explain it to them and it isn't up to you to decide when I will teach my children about breasts". This is incomprehensible to me. I would think every parent would welcome the opportunity to explain to their child what breasts are really meant for before their child gets exposed to sexualized breasts. But, there are families that formula fed, that think breastfeeding is disgusting, and that regard breasts as sexual only. They don't want their children to see me breastfeeding in public because they think they then have to have a conversation about sex with their kids. All you need to do is to say "some babies drink from bottles, some babies drink from breasts". Period. This is not about sex. It is about feeding babies.
I've had this conversation many times it seems. But most recently on Nina's blog Blog It Out Bitch on her initial post on breastfeeding in public and her recap post the next day. In response to her second post I put up this comment:
I don’t agree with everything in your response, but I think it is really well written and you make a lot of great points.
The one thing that I will still stick on from yesterday’s conversation is the thought around whether it is okay to breastfeed around other people’s children. You said yesterday and again today that it should be up to the parents to decide when they are going to teach their kids what breasts are for and what breastfeeding is. I want to make a few follow-on points to that:
1) The problem is that many parents won’t. They gave formula. They will never talk to their kids about breasts or breastfeeding. Their kids first exposure to breasts will be when their buddy brings a dirty magazine to school or when they start popping out of their own chest. They will learn ONLY about the sexualization of breasts and will go on to be one of those people who think that breastfeeding is sexual or gross or something to be hidden.
2) My kids ask me a LOT of questions. They ask me why that person has a different skin colour from us. They ask me why that person drives a truck. They ask me why that bush has flowers and the other one doesn’t. They ask me why cows poo on the ground and we use a toilet. They ask me why? why? why? all the time. I think that is a good thing because it gives me the opportunity to be the one to provide an explanation to my kids or for us to explore the answer together. It is normal for kids to ask questions about things and I don’t think any kid would think there is anything weird about breastfeeding unless their parents give them a reason to think so. Just say “she is feeding her baby. Some babies drink from bottles and some babies drink from breasts”. Is it really that hard? (this last question is not aimed at you Nina, but at those that suggest that they don’t want their kids to see it).
There were a variety of responses to this, including Mary saying "Annie, as much as you might want it to be, it is NOT your job to teach other peoples’ children about such things" followed by some not so nice words that I don't like to repeat. Nina, whose blog it is, finished off that thread of the conversation by replying to me with:
I happen to agree with you. I don’t think it so hard to simply explain to a curious child what breastfeeding is. But I respect a parent’s right to choose when and how. And though I don’t see the big deal, I can UNDERSTAND if there’s a moment of annoyance when confronted with that while out to dinner.
The conversation there went in many different directions and I was busy with work, family and keeping up with comments on my other post on when to quit breastfeeding, so I didn't have a chance to continue the conversation there. But I keep mulling it over and over and over again. No, it is not my job to teach other people's children about such things, but it is also not their job to tell me when, where and how to feed my baby.
Here is what it comes down to:
- I want to go out to dinner with my family. I want to feed my kids at the restaurant. This means the baby will be breastfeeding. I do not want to put a blanket over my child's head.
- You want to go out to dinner with your family. You want to feed your kids at the restaurant. You do not want to explain to them why my baby is drinking from my breasts. You do not want to put a blanket over your child's head.
You don't want your child to see me feeding my child. Why is that my problem? Why should I stay home while you go to the restaurant? Why should your kids eat at the table, while my kid eats in the bathroom? Why should my child have to have a blanket over her head instead of you putting a blanket over your child's head?
If you don't want to see me breastfeed, it is YOUR problem, not MY problem. Period.
Reader Comments (110)
I came across this argument for the first time several years ago (from an American mother who didn't 'have time to give a lesson on breastfeeding' at the checkout), and I was completely bamboozled by it. I can't imagine what life would be like constantly fearing coming across the range of humanity, in case your children ask questions. Or what sort of relationship they have with their children that simple questions are so disturbing and difficult to handle.
The same reasoning has been used to exclude people with all sorts of disabilities from public life, people in same-sex relationships, people of colour, women without certain body parts covered - do these people really want to join that company? (I suppose some of them do, and that's just all the sadder.)
At a restaurant?
Sure. At a restaurant or anywhere else. I use the restaurant example because people seem to think they have the right to feed their family there, but I don't.
I can't agree more with this post. I don't butt into anyone else's business and tell them how, when and where to feed their children and feel I should be granted the same courtesy. While I can't stand the thought of feeding a child formula, I don't expect bottle feeders to take their child elsewhere because I don't approve or don't feel like explaining to my daughter that some babies drink out of bottles. The hypocrisy that surrounds the whole "boob or bottle" debate infuriates me. Even though I don't agree with a mother's decision to formula fed, I respect it. And if I really don't like what I see, I turn my head. Why can't breast feeding mothers receive the same respect?
THANK YOU! I've written about NIP, and TopHat has some great NIP posts as well. I am passionate about the subject, and the more word gets out, the better. People need to realize that NIP isn't even an issue in 95% of the rest of the world. It is ridiculous cultural bias. These same complainers aren't likely to ask management to escort the woman with the spaghetti-strap, low-cut tank top with 3 x as much decolletage showing out of the restaurant, for fear of disrupting their children's moral values.
I think that we need more women nursing in public, so that it becomes normal and accepted and we can stop having this debate. There are a lot of things I don't want to explain to my kids, but I have to because I'm confronted with it in public. We've discussed homelessness, why people smoke, and what certain words mean. That's life. I can't expect people to not live their lives, that would be unreasonable. It's similarly unreasonable for them to expect me not to live my life, especially when it means providing care to my baby.
Great post. I especially like the last sentence - says it all really!
I don't cover, never have and never will. Usually I pull my shirt up but sometimes I even (gasp!) pull it down and lift my breast out. ZOmg!1!! I could really not care less what anyone else thinks. Discreet is not a word that should ever be used in conjunction with breastfeeding, IMO. I've never gotten hassle for it here in the UK. I'm going to visit family in the US in June and will be interested in seeing if the reactions to me not covering are different. I'm sure some tiny minds will boggle. LOL
This was awesome. And do you ever notice the people who are so offended are always the ones staring the hardest? If you see my baby is fussy/crying and I am fumbling with my shirt and nursing bra and you have a problem seeing anything, then LOOK AWAY. But they don't! I can't tell you how many times I've had people just stare at me the whole time I am latching my son on. It's like they are hoping to see a piece of nipple or boob so they can get offended.
Great post, Annie - I couldn't agree more. As someone else said, the last sentence says it all.
Annie, this is fabulous! I have a two-year-old boy who asks me a billion questions a day - loudly. I have to answer his loud questions, in public, about people in wheelchairs, obese people, the different between girls and boys, whether someone has a penis or not... and the list goes on. I am not given a choice as to when to have these discussions because he is two and he wants to know NOW and NOW is when things happen and children learn.
If I'm not given a choice as to when to handle these questions, why should it be any different with breastfeeding. It's just something else that happens in the world. When my toddler asks me questions about me breastfeeding my four-month-old I answer every single one of them - just like I would any other question. Where is the fear coming from? I just don't understand it.
Bravo for your insightful post!
Kristin
I really have such a difficult time understanding this debate.
I'm not saying I don't understand the desire to shelter children from things we are not ready to explain to them yet - I do. But I feel the onus is on me if it's my desire to keep them from something; it's not up to the world to conform to my wishes.
The reason I really don't get this stance is this:
I saw a woman in the grocery store last night with most of her stomach and about half her breasts plainly visible. No one (well, except maybe me) was tutting or shaking their heads in disgust. When my daughter was about eight, we found it virtually impossible to find clothes that did not look like prostitute gear. This is completely acceptable in our culture.
In church, I one sat beside my husband behind a girl wearing pants so low-rise that we could see her thong. And I don't just mean the waist band. I mean a good 3-4" of it. In CHURCH!! I doubt any of the people pulled her aside to tell her how disgusting that is, or complained to the pastor.
We are such a confused culture. If we show our bodies for sexual purposes, even publicly, that's okay, but if we do something nurturing for our children - well, heaven help us.
I have a friend who has been breastfeeding for 8 months (so far). I'm with her a lot. It's easy to look away from her breasts when she's breastfeeding (I'm not uncomfortable with it, but I don't want to make her uncomfortable). It's just not difficult to not see a breastfeeding woman's breasts if you don't want to! I hope that I never make a breastfeeding woman feel like what she's doing is shameful.
I don't have children so far, but I like Kristin's attitude toward questioning children. "Mommy, what's that lady doing?" (or any permutation of that question) does not seem like a scary question to have to deal with in public. I'd be much more worried about how I'd deal with some of his or her other questions!
Great post Annie! You always address controversial topics with such elegance and without being judgemental. I love that about your blog! You are absolutely right in this post! I remember one time I was out with my son and his nanny at a japanese grill. We were sitting at one of those big tables that you share with other people and there was a couple sitting across from us. My son got fussy and I knew he needed to eat. I thought about saying "I hope you don't mind if I breastfeed my baby" here to the other couple - but then I thought - why ask - I am going to feed him whether it bothers them or not - so why ask? My son needed to be fed and I fed him. I always wore nursing tops when I fed my son in public - not to cover my breasts and not to cover my son, but to cover my belly rolls that I didn't want hanging out in public! So like you - there was almost no skin exposed while my son ate. The other couple didn't say anything and we all enjoyed our lunch. And that was the last time I ever considered asking for someone's approval before feeding my son in public. My son literally nursed every hour for the first year of his life - so we nursed in public everywhere that we went.
I remember one time before I was a mother seeing a mom BF in a tiny restaurant. There was nothing showing but a bit of her mid-driff. Her baby was a bit older, toddler age, maybe? I was so grossed out and leaned over and whispered to my husband, "Don't EVER let me be like that!" I was actually a few weeks pregnant at the time, and planning to BF (because it was the right thing to do, not because I wanted to - GROSS!) . (this is sarcasm here, by the way).
When I remember that day, I just cringe at myself. How awful! Not only have I done it many many times since being a mom, I actually ended up (GASP) loving breast feeding my son and being totally insulted at the idea of having to go to the bathroom to feed him. A complete 180.
But I was just ignorant before. Not that it's an excuse, but I was.
Pregnant with #2 I am so excited to start breastfeeding again. I actually miss it. :) And I agree that coving up and running off to the bathroom just reinforces the message that it's not normal or healthful or ok. When I look back, I am proud of that woman at the restaurant feeding her toddler. :) And, embarrased at what a goober I was.
@ Nobel Savage - when you come to the US, it will depend on what state you visit. Colorado (where I live) is pretty accepting. I never even got looks or questions from people really. But I hear some places it's not as accepted.
Great post. Since I'm not working with this kid, I spend a lot more time with him, and more time BFing since I'm not pumping and giving him bottles. Last weekend, I had my first experience having other people's kids ask me what I was doing. It was interesting! I wasn't really sure what to say, but I remembered that clip from seasame street and that helped a little.
That's a REALLY good point you make about showing less breast than many women in a slow cut tank top do. I'm going to remember that.
I just think there needs to be more understanding on both sides, and I'm sorry, but from what I've read over the past few days it seems that nursing mothers are the least willing to "see the other side." There were even women on my blog jumping on mothers who nurse in public covered.
The point I was trying to make... well, several points, were these:
1. Though you may not like it, and though you may not agree, some people find breastfeeding uncomfortable and gross. I don't. But UNDERSTAND that others might and that might, in turn, dictate their reaction if they were to see me breastfeeding in public uncovered.
2. You can't control people's looks and expressions. You just can't. It seems that most of the people that responded in my blog that advocated NIP uncovered were just downright righteous in their expectations of other people's reactions. Anything you do in public, is open to a reaction. Now, I don't think anyone SHOULD come up to you and say anything rude or even ask you to stop breastfeeding. I'm not one of those people that think that it's akin to urinating in public or something else as ridiculous. But, if I were nursing uncovered, I don't begrudge someone else their right to not like it.
Just because you don't agree with someone else's opinion, doesn't mean they don't have the right to it.
3. I also take issue with the mothers who actually said that they have a problem with mother's who nurse covered because it sends the signal that THEY should. I'm sorry, but there seemed to be a whole lot of blame shifting for experiences those mothers have had that have NOTHING to do with me (general, NIP covered Mom.)
I nurse for one reason. It's the best thing for my son. Period. Sure, there are added benefits like bonding and it's cheaper than formula. But that's it. When I signed on for this experience I wasn't also signing up to promote anyone's cause. If I don't want my belly out, or my nipple exposed for any length or time and for any reason, that's my business. You feed your child the way you want to, and allow me to do the same.
4. I think a point was lost along the way, at least in terms of my blog... the part about explaining to children had nothing to do with sex. What had been said was that explaining to a child what the woman at the next table is doing provides the perfect opportunity to have a breastfeeding discussion and explain what breasts are for. And my point was that it's not for you (general NIP uncovered Mom) to decide what's a perfect opportunity for someone else's child to learn anything. EVEN IF YOU'RE RIGHT. The way you and I would handle it is not necessarily the way someone else would handle it, and that's okay because THAT'S NOT OUR CHILD and we don't get a say.
I'm sorry that it seems so many NIP uncovered Moms have had negative reactions because I've been in DOZENS of situations where women have done it and if people had negative thoughts, they kept it to themselves.
I'm not sure of the legal aspect of it all, but I think people have the right to ask a NIP uncovered Mom to cover in a public place, but that Mom also has the right to tell that person to sit down and mind their business.
Again, what I have a problem with it is the unbending attitude that people who don't like it can't even let it show on their faces. It seems it's more "everyone is different, and that's okay.... unless you disagree with me."
Also, women who walk around with the majority of their breasts exposed are judged. We have all done it. Even men who like looking at breasts makes an assumption on that woman's character (she's slutty, she's loose, she has an ego, etc.) when she walks around with her breasts hanging out of a shirt.
I have been around a lot of places in my 34 years and I've nursed two children in public and seen dozens of women do so, and though I've might have caught a stare or two (and who knows what they were thinking), I've never had anyone say something to me, nor have I seen other Moms confronted.
And I've never seen a woman wearing a low-cut top confronted either.
nice post annie. i just the other day got to teach two little girls at my son's new preschool what breasts are for when i had to feed baby pea while i was there. they were so confused, and i was so glad to clear up the mystery for them :)
I got a link to this from twitter. I completely agree with you! I'm the only one in my family who breastfeeds, but I don't hide when I feed my son (well, okay, if I'm a guest in someone's home, and there's a bunch of men who will be made uncomfortable, I'll go to a room). Once my 5-year old nephew saw me feeding my son. He was so curious and thought it was so interesting (it was a boob!!!), but I completely downplayed it and said that the baby was getting milk, and that was all. He then proceeded to run to my sister to tell her that "The baby's drinking milk from Jessi's Booby!!!!" Loudly. LOL... but now he knows. :)
@ Nina:
Where I live, people do not have the legal right to tell a mom to cover up. In fact, her right to NOT cover up is protected by our human rights legislation.
I get that I can't control people's reactions. I understand that and I accept that. They can be grossed out all they want, as long as they leave me alone.
I also know that it isn't up to me to decide when they will teach their child about breasts. I understand that. However, it is also not up to them to tell me how to feed my child. I don't know why it is any more appropriate for them to suggest that I put a blanket over my baby's head than it is for me to suggest that they put a blanket over their child's head if they do not want them to see what I am doing.
@ Nina (re your second comment! I wish I had threaded comments like you do.)
I have also never been confronted. But I know moms that have been confronted and humiliated when they were trying to feed their child. There are lots of instances in just about every type of public place. I documented all the http://www.phdinparenting.com/2008/08/16/friendly-skies-not-always-for-breastfeeding-mothers/" rel="nofollow">known instances on airplanes in a post a while ago.
[...] i got online and i was reading a few of my favorite blogs and i came across phd in parenting writing in response to a blog she read about nursing in public. i have a million and one thoughts [...]
I nurse in public all the time. I am as discreet as my child will allow me to be. I don't use a cover, it's just not for me. I realize others may not feel comfortable with seeing it. I try to be respectful. Not only is it easier for me to nurse my child in a quiet and private place, it seems to be more convenient on a social level. I try to accommodate my environment. What's appropriate in a coffee shop with other moms may be awkward in a crowded fancy restaurant with my in-laws sitting across from me.
I do hold my head up high when I NIP and try to project confidence. I want other women to see me and feel like they can do it, too. I respect the choice to NIP as one feels comfortable. If wearing a cover works for a mom and her baby, who am I to judge? I don't like to be judged and try not to judge others.
Additionally, as a breastfeeding and NIP advocate, I feel we need to embrace other women and their efforts to breastfeed and NIP - support and acceptance are more helpful to the cause than criticism and condemnation. We need to support ANY breastfeeding mom that NIP, in whatever way she chooses. I found that in life, people are more likely to follow a person that leads by example than one that dictates.
I also found that simply telling others that you are about to feed your baby goes a long way. This gives them the opportunity to leave, if they don't want to be around it. It also shows respect for their feelings. I've done this when sitting next to people I didn't know very well. Of course, it doesn't really work in a crowded place where it's impossible to inform everyone around.
One way to help make the mental shift from teaching a child about something parents think is "sexual" whether it be the function of breasts or teaching a child about sex itself, is to think of such things as "body science." There is a book by Meg Hickling, RN called "More Speaking of Sex." and there is a good article here that explains the importance of talking to kids about bodies and sex starting at a young age. Basically, I know that some parents don't want to deal with answering their kid's questions. I know its not up to me or you or anyone else to decide when they will or will not do that. But they *should.* It's the right thing to do. Being a parent isn't for the queasy at heart. That good article is here http://news.therecord.com/specialreports/yearsofwonder/article/261808
@ Nina - I've been thinking about this some more. In terms of people finding it gross and therefore either complaining about it or just even having a look of disgust on their face, I don't think it is an appropriate social reaction. In the same way that our mothers taught us "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all", we also need to control our physical reactions to things that we don't like in public. For example, lots of people find obesity gross or may find someone with significant burns on their body or an amputated limb to be disgusting. It is not appropriate to stare, giggle, whisper, complain or have your mouth gaping open in those situations. It is discriminatory and it is rude. I do understand that a lot of people haven't seen breastfeeding before, so the first time they see it they might inadvertently have a reaction. But I think the more that people do see moms breastfeeding in public, the more we will be able to lessen those occurrences.
One more comment...
My child is almost 16 months. I'm finding people react much differently to seeing me NIP than when he was a little baby. Extended breastfeeding (I define as past one year of age) in public truly freaks some people out.
It's a shame.
I also want to note that I have hardly seen any other moms NIP. Maybe one or two? Where are they??? I'm in Ohio, by the way. I think the rate for breastfeeding a child as old as mine is like 1%. People really aren't used to seeing it.
My response when people ask, "You're STILL breastfeeding?!" is "I think it's weirder to allow my child to nurse from a cow than his own mother." Besides, I'm really enjoying the extra calories he's burning for me. I'm not in a hurry to get preggers again, either. I still haven't had a period since I got pregnant (Feb 07).
My kid doesn't want anything but my breasts, cereal, and water. I don't feel comfortable weaning him when his weight is so low and he has feeding problems. I really wish moms weren't judged so harshly - especially by other moms.
I hope I'm coming off as supportive of NIP Moms, because I really am. I just try to see both sides.
That said, if someone approached me about nursing Jack in public with any kind of "cover him" or "go to the bathroom" suggestions, I am about 100 % positive I'd tell them to go to hell.
Jack and I have just started this thing where he will crawl over to me, pull at my shirt, and then nurse while kneeling when I pull out the breast. He then turns his head to watch TV, watch whatever his older sister is doing, etc. It's the funniest thing.
My husband is like, "He is so grown." We love it!
@ Nina - I completely understand that you are supportive of NIP moms. I just think you are too forgiving of those that are not! I guess I see it is similar to saying "I'm not a racist, but I think it is okay for other people to be racists".
You know, I can't say what I really think of this... I'm not sure if I'll be one of those moms who chooses to breast feed/ can even breastfeed and choose to do it in public. I assume though that that's not really me and that I won't feel comfortable doing that. I don't see anything WRONG with it... it's just not me and I don't think I would feel comfortable. I'll probably pump if possible and bring a bottle to the resturaunt.
Great post.
I couldn't agree more that if one parent doesn't want their child to see another nurse then it's their job to avoid places where moms nurse, and in my mind that would and should be everywhere. It's natural , it's what they are for and people need to get past their issues. It's not my job to cater to their sensitivities about boobs.
I've read ALL the comments on this and both of Nina's post and ALL of her comments. I decided to give my 2 cents, for what they are worth.
1. I have, and will continue to, nurse in public when neccesary. However, I have always covered up, by MY OWN CHOICE. I am not comfortable with the idea that someone might see more of me than I want them to.
2. In my community it is rare to see a mother nursing in public. However, I never encountered any stares or comments. Regardless, I will NEVER feed my baby in a bathroon or chose formula or even a bottle of my milk just to appease others. First of all, bathroom = Major Yuck. Secondly, I have worked TOO DAMN HARD to supplement or to miss a chance to nurse vs. using a bottle.
3. I have to agree vehemently, that only a parent can choose when to have a conversation regarding [insert topic here] with their child. EVEN THOUGH I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with explaining to a child that some babies drink from a bottle, some from breasts, it is a parent's choice when to have that conversation.
As always, thanks for the great post! Keep them coming!
@ReillyLife
Thank you for your comment! With regards to your third point, how do you think society should handle that? Other than people keeping their kids at home and never going out with them, I don't see any practical solution to that issue. Kids are going to see things and are going to ask questions and their parents are going to need to offer up an answer, otherwise they'll ask Billy on the playground and he may not give the answer the parents would like their kids to have.
Great post!
I really have a problem with the idea that breastfeeding in public is forcing parents to discuss something with their children before they are willing to. It is the same exact argument being used by parents http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=6946286&page=1" rel="nofollow">protesting a host on a British children's show who has a congenital deformity of one of her arms.
No one can force someone to have a discussion with her child before she is ready. I have an IUD pin on my white coat (I am a medical student who plans to practice Ob/gyn.) . When my son http://momstinfoilhat.wordpress.com/2009/01/17/two-funnies-from-z/" rel="nofollow">said "You have a pogo stick on your white coat!" I said "Yes I do!" because I didn't think a discussion on birth control was age appropriate. I make these sorts of judgment calls every day. A parent who doesn't want to discuss the TV host with the different arm can turn off the TV, say "I don't want to talk about that" and stick their head in the sand all she wants.
Parents DO get to choose what they dicsuss and what they ignore. What they cannot control is the entire world around them, and the sooner they learn that, the better. And, the sooner they stop using "But what about the CHILDREN??" as an excuse to cover up their own biases and fears, the better we will all be.
Breastfeeding is in absolutely no way disgusting, sexual, inappropriate, or wrong, and I refuse to defend or accept the defense of someone who tries to pretend it is. Neither is seeing a biracial or homosexual couple together (I am not talking about sex here, but holding hands or in a book or something), a TV host with a differently abled body, or a myriad of other examples of biases people have.
I will judge women who go to restaurants with their breasts, midriffs, thongs or buttcheeks hanging out of their clothes in a sexual manner. (I live near South Beach in Miami. Not only have I seen all this at restaurants, I have seen mothers dropping off their children at school dressed like this. No kidding.) I do not pretend that there won't be groups of parents who think my breastfeeding in restaurants was obscene, just like there are apparently people who think my judgment of women who walk around like they are auditioning for a porno is some sort of wrong attitude toward a sex positive ideal.
We don't agree, and I can live with that. I don't have to defned their point of view, however.
[...] kind of posts. I am reply -tunred - posting to a reply - turned post. PhD in Parenting has a post about a post on Blog it out, Bitch about how breastfeeding in public somehow forces disapproving [...]
Great site; I've just subscribed. Many women have already said what I would have, quite eloquently and in ways that made me laugh out loud. In 15 months (and still going) of breastfeeding, I've never had a negative comment from anyone other than a close family member (who feel like they have the right to say anything). I nursed in public often when frequent feedings were necessary and "discrete" places to feed while taking public transportation in a big city could not always be found. Before birth, I thought I would feel mortified to nurse in public. In fact, it was the easiest thing in the world (breastfeeding itself, on the other hand, was the hardest thing I had ever done for those first few months -- much harder than the posterior positioned med-free birth). I breastfed for my son, and I breastfed in public for my sanity (since I HAD to get out of the house), however every time I did so, I did also feel that I was helping to lay groundwork for women who might want to NIP but be uncertain of the reaction that they'd receive.
The only unique perspective I can add to this discussion is to say that none of us never knows what is happening inside a family... just like women who formula feed may be doing it for any number of reasons, from personal preference to heartbreaking illness rendering nursing dangerous or impossible, so it is the same with breastfeeding. Our son has multiple food allergies, and while we certainly COULD have weened him by now, it would have been very costly, and a bumpy, dangerous road, since he'd likely react to most commercial formulas and require expensive prescription concoctions that may or may not be covered by insurance. Attempted weening to milk caused a violent reaction, and we're slowly proceeding with soy milk, which arguably is not as healthy for him as breastmilk. So if you see a woman feeding a toddler beyond the age you think appropriate, and you choose to pass judgment, (shame on you) remember that there may be more to the story.
Incidentally, while I have on occasion fed my son in a bathroom when it was the most comfortable arrangement for us, it becomes very difficult for an older toddler. Most public toilets don't have toilet covers, so sitting on a toilet to feed isn't possible, and holding a toddler in the air and nursing isn't as easy as doing the same with an infant. Nursing in a restroom now means crouching on the ground, balancing him on my knee nursing, and trying to get as much milk into him as I can before a toilet flush, a mirror, or anything else grabs his attention. Luckily we rarely need to nurse in public anymore.
I never worry about shielding other peoples' kids from nursing in public. In a private playgroup situation, I might ask a friend/mother if she'd prefer I nurse privately if her child is of an age where I think it is an issue for her (note I didn't say for the child). But in public, I don't see other moms making an effort to shield my son from the television we don't want him to watch until age 2, the mass marketed character paraphenelia we avoid, the pacifiers we don't use, or the food he is allergic to and can't eat, like gerber puffs. I think explaining why my son isn't allowed to eat a piece of birthday cake at a party will be more challenging than them having to explain "mommy milk."
Sorry that was so long. Kudos for the interesting article.
The first time I breastfed my son was in the hospital room, with all the nurses, my entire family and a lot of my friends (mostly guys in their young 20's) there.
I didn't even think about it.
I'm feeding my child, not flashing you.
I had non qualms about breastfeeding him anywhere I went. If I had a blanket I used it, somewhat, just to keep him from paying attention to possible distractions more than anything. I never made a conscious effort to cover up what I was doing.
I agree with Lynn that there are many things that are more difficult to explain to a young child than breastfeeding.
Before I had him I was sure that breastfeeding what what I wanted to do and I was equally sure that I wouldn't want anyone seeing me do it but as it turned out, being discreet and looking for somewhere to do it was nowhere near the first thing on my mind.
I fed on demand and f I had stopped to look for a place to hide and breastfeed it would have taken all day to get any one thing accomplished!
Not to mention the inconvenience of having a shirt drenched in breastmilk because my child was hungrily crying and it took too long to find a place to feed him.
The only one time that I ever felt uncomfortable doing it in public was when I had stopped to pick some pajamas up for him from wal-mart and was feeding him while I browsed the aisles and a guy kept staring at my breasts, following and approaching me.
And, truth be told, that would have creeped me out, made me uncomfortable and bothered me even if I hadn't been breastfeeding.
If it's not something that anyone wants to see then they shouldn't look.
I see lots of things I don't want to see out in public (i.e grotesque piercings, couples groping and making out, people that don't know how to chew with their mouths shut!) and I have never once suggested that they go do it in the bathroom or put a blanket over their heads.
Nature gave CHILDREN the right, and the government in most states have put it in writing.
It's not even so much about MY right to breastfeed my son in public. It's about my son's right to breastfeed in public. For me, the "rights" come down to my right to choose how my children eat as infants (breast, not formula or pumped milk), my right to venture out into public with my children, and my right to feed my child without jumping through hoops that mothers who have made different feeding decisions do not have to jump through.
But the actual RIGHT to breastfeed in public? That's all my son's. He has the right to his method of comfort and food. He has the right to have his food fresh and at the right temperature. He has the right to have on-demand access to antibodies that are being developed real-time in response to environmental pathogens. He has the right to not have to suckle at a bottle or pacifier and receive sub-optimal jaw/oral development. HE has the right to decide if he nurses under a blanket or not. And HE has the right to not be exposed to germs and other dangerous/unsanitary/uncomfortable conditions in bathrooms. HE has the right to accompany me out in public.
Too right. If someone wants to hide something so natural from their children, let them go ahead and cover their own kids in a blanket. Don't try and recommend a nursing mom do it just-in-case someone takes offence. Breastfeeding can be such a difficult thing to master without having to try and deal with the comfort of the rest of the world along with you and your child. I am giving my son the best start in life and I don't care who knows it.
sara - excellent point.
RE: NIP w/ a cover
look, some of us ladies are of a larger frame, and large breasts to deal with while nursing, and the embarrassment of exposing my stomach and sides along with my breasts is just one more thing i don't want to have worry about while trying to feed my antsy and usually upset 8-month old. so yes, i wear a cover. it's not for anyone's sake other than my own. though i wholeheartedly agree with NIP and think all mom's should do it whenever and wherever they choose, I resent the notion that because I wear a cover, I'm sending the wrong message about NIP. I'm quite jealous of women who are able to unhook, lift up and latch all in one fell swoop - but I am not one of those women. Please reconsider the notion of breastfeeding with a cover and don't make us bigger gals feel more isolated than we already do. I'm for the cause, not against it, and that also means that I get to NIP in the way I'm most comfortable with for me. Much like I hold no expectations of standards of how you NIP, please extend the same courtesy to me.
I'm really having a hard time with the idea that breastfeeding is "gross". When I breastfed in public I did use a light cover, more because I'm very modest, but that's how I was comfortable. It's insane that people can't deal with a breastfeeding mother. And bathrooms? That is what's gross. I'll never understand people. It's ok to be half-naked, running around with your clothes falling off, but God forbid you're feeding a child and someone sees your breast... This world just gets weirder and weirder.
After all these years, I am still surprised people don't get what "public" means. If you chose to bring your child into public space, they are going to see legal conduct. Breastfeeding in public is legal. Get over it. If you don't want your child to see it, stay home.
Yes, I harbor a secret hope that during the nine years I breastfed in public, a few kids asked their mommies what I was doing but frankly I doubt it. At the time I was nursing my kids, the last thing I had on my mind was someone else's kid - sort of in the design. I was feeding my kids - not undermining someone else's child rearing choices. If you have chosen to keep your child ignorant of how mammals feed their young, that is up to you. Stay away from me and farms and zoos.
I think parent's should embrace the fact that they are the ones teaching their children and not getting it from wackos out there. There are way too many opportunities children learn from those who don't care about values and such. Personally, I don't want to see it, but then again I want to be a millionaire. We can't all get what we want, but I can surely take the opportunity to talk to my children. When did parents become so afraid of having real conversations with their children?
Wow! I am just amazed that this conversation is even happening. I understand that some people have hangups with women breastfeeding in public, but because their children might ask questions about it?!?! That is just too weird. There are all sorts of things that kids may see when out in public. If people want to control when their kids are exposed to everything, they better keep them home. Yesterday we were out and there was a severely autistic teenaged boy in the store who was screaming and doing all sorts of things. I would never think to tell the mom to keep her kid home because I wasn't ready to discuss special needs with my child. Will these people go ballistic if the person at the table next to them has to special order because he has food allergies and they are not prepared to discuss food allergies with their child. Or if someone's credit card is rejected and they are not prepared to discuss finances with their child? As far as covers go, I'd never think of judging a woman for that. I'd just be happy that she was breastfeeding. Plus, maybe some babies need the quiet and darkness to relax...I've known some babies with some major hangups, so I think that would be very possible.
[...] over at PhD in Parenting (I guess that makes her even more official than a Professional SAHM!), they are having a discussion [...]
I agree with almost everything you said. Using your child's ignorance as a reason to debate breastfeeding in public is ridiculous. The human body and breasts are natural objects. So long as the breast feeding is discrete without flashing the general public left and right then there's no reason to get up in arms about it.
Now, there is one thing that instantly made me do a double take:
"1) The problem is that many parents won’t. They gave formula. They will never talk to their kids about breasts or breastfeeding."
You're talking about all of the verbal attacks at breastfeeding and you throw that in there? I can't help but feel insulted. I gave my daughter formula and no, I did not have a choice. This will not impact my ability to teach her about breasts or breastfeeding. The thought that it would is just as laughable as those parents I mentioned earlier.
I'm a bit disappointed.
Oh, re: breastfeeding covers- I never feel that women are "sending the wrong message", I just feel sad that they (might) feel that they can't breastfeed without a cover, and angry that the world (might) be making things more difficult for them. I'm also made more than a bit sad that my son doesn't get to see a woman NURSING HER BABY in public, and that the only few babies that he's seen nursing have been under covers. It's not judgement, just a bit of sadness. Although at the same time I'm totally going nuts jumping up and down with glee inside because "WOW IT'S ANOTHER MOTHER BREASTFEEDING HER BABY! OMG"... Gives you the idea of how seldom I see that happening in NYC.
@Satsuki - I wasn't saying that parents that gave formula won't talk to their kids about breastfeeding. I was saying that the parents that will not talk to their kids about breastfeeding most likely did formula feed.
Sara - my NIP w/ a cover response was not directed at you, but to the original blog posting. My comment to you was just that you made a good point about it being your child's right, not yours. Just wanted to clarify.
Kate- I figured, I just wanted to make sure that I hadn't said something like "moms should be able to nurse without having to pitch a tent first". Sometimes I say things like that and it sounds like my anger is directed at the moms that use cover-ups, and not at the people that request they use them. :)