Wednesday
Jan272010
Covering up is a feminist issue
Wednesday, January 27, 2010
Note: Since writing this post, some of the images have been made unavailable. However, I also created a video version of the Covering Up is a Feminist Issue message, which I would encourage you to check out and share.
Yesterday I read and commented on a post where a woman, mother, and published author was asking breastfeeding moms why they can't cover up. She wanted to know why women can't just be discreet. That led me to look up the word "discreet" in the dictionary and interestingly Merriam Webster says it means:
According to that definition, it would seem that asking or telling someone to cover up is, in fact, indiscreet.
But is refusing to cover up indiscreet? I don't think so. There is a wide range of opinions on what constitutes good judgment with regards to how women dress themselves and how much they should or should not cover up. Any time a woman is told to cover up or told to undress, I see that as an attack on her person. Telling women to cover up and telling women to strip down are frequently used tactics for oppressing women. There are both practical and philosophical reasons why no one other than the woman herself should decide how covered or uncovered to be. It is easier for onlookers to avert their eyes than it is for a woman to dress in a way that makes her feel uncomfortable.
When it comes to dressing, I think women should be able to choose from a wide variety of options. It should be up to them to decide how they feel comfortable.
Burka by niomix2008 on flickr
P1010131 by brookesb on flickr
Saturday Night Smile by LollyKnit on flickr
Paola by Gary Denness on flickr
19/03/07 by Sagrado Corazón on flickr
#4 rach in the rain by rachel sian on flickr
Leaning Back by Diana Blackwell on flickr
CLEAVAGE ON A LAZY AFTERNOON by fabiogis50 on flickr
Sesion Color by Master/Cyber on flickr
Sandra IMG_6836 by -Andrew- on flickr
Denim Skirts by Anita Robicheau on flickr
Hi mom! by Magdalena O! on flickr
365 day twenty-two: keep a light on by Foxtongue on flickr
When it comes to breastfeeding, I feel the same way. There is no one definition of how covered a woman should be. Some people think no skin should show at all. Others think anything goes. I don't think it is the place of anyone other than the breastfeeding mother to decide whether or how much to cover.
Magical Milk Pic-O-the-Week on welcometomybrain.net
Magical Milk Pic-O-the-Week on welcometomybrain.net
Madeleine hides under the Bebe au Lait cover by freeformkatia on flickr
Jones Beach by Joe Shlabotnik on flickr
DSC_5552 by 150hp on flickr
080308VanSickler073 by littleREDelf on flickr
Mamella by Amadeu Sanz on flickr
purchased from istockphoto
sosta in paese by Matteo Bagnoli on flickr
at 2 years old...by @noborders on flickr
Bonding by Mike.Hanlon on flickr
Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but when it comes to dressing and breastfeeding, appropriateness should be decided by the woman herself. If other people don't like it, they should discreetly avert their eyes.
Yesterday I read and commented on a post where a woman, mother, and published author was asking breastfeeding moms why they can't cover up. She wanted to know why women can't just be discreet. That led me to look up the word "discreet" in the dictionary and interestingly Merriam Webster says it means:
Having or showing discernment or good judgment in conduct and especially in speech: PRUDENT; especially: capable of preserving prudent silence.
According to that definition, it would seem that asking or telling someone to cover up is, in fact, indiscreet.
But is refusing to cover up indiscreet? I don't think so. There is a wide range of opinions on what constitutes good judgment with regards to how women dress themselves and how much they should or should not cover up. Any time a woman is told to cover up or told to undress, I see that as an attack on her person. Telling women to cover up and telling women to strip down are frequently used tactics for oppressing women. There are both practical and philosophical reasons why no one other than the woman herself should decide how covered or uncovered to be. It is easier for onlookers to avert their eyes than it is for a woman to dress in a way that makes her feel uncomfortable.
When it comes to dressing, I think women should be able to choose from a wide variety of options. It should be up to them to decide how they feel comfortable.
Burka by niomix2008 on flickr P1010131 by brookesb on flickr Saturday Night Smile by LollyKnit on flickr Paola by Gary Denness on flickr 19/03/07 by Sagrado Corazón on flickr #4 rach in the rain by rachel sian on flickr Leaning Back by Diana Blackwell on flickr CLEAVAGE ON A LAZY AFTERNOON by fabiogis50 on flickr Sesion Color by Master/Cyber on flickr Sandra IMG_6836 by -Andrew- on flickr Denim Skirts by Anita Robicheau on flickr Hi mom! by Magdalena O! on flickr 365 day twenty-two: keep a light on by Foxtongue on flickrWhen it comes to breastfeeding, I feel the same way. There is no one definition of how covered a woman should be. Some people think no skin should show at all. Others think anything goes. I don't think it is the place of anyone other than the breastfeeding mother to decide whether or how much to cover.
Magical Milk Pic-O-the-Week on welcometomybrain.net Magical Milk Pic-O-the-Week on welcometomybrain.net
Madeleine hides under the Bebe au Lait cover by freeformkatia on flickr Jones Beach by Joe Shlabotnik on flickr
DSC_5552 by 150hp on flickr 080308VanSickler073 by littleREDelf on flickr Mamella by Amadeu Sanz on flickr
purchased from istockphoto sosta in paese by Matteo Bagnoli on flickr at 2 years old...by @noborders on flickr Bonding by Mike.Hanlon on flickrBeauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but when it comes to dressing and breastfeeding, appropriateness should be decided by the woman herself. If other people don't like it, they should discreetly avert their eyes.
Reader Comments (214)
Let's keep in mind Canada is a HUGE country -bigger than the US. There are a lot of regional differences.
I'm in Toronto and I've never been told to move/cover up. I have heard of a few, very few, women being asked that/told that and its always a shock to them because it "doesn't happen".
However there is a lot of hoopla in the last 4 years over nursing in pools and on the "deck". One case just made it through the human rights tribunal and this was the basics of it was that the pool owner herself is a nursing mom and has no problem with women nursing anywhere BUT she has been begging for a clarification of the law regarding "food or drink" around the pool as it relates to nursing. She doesn't want to tell women not to nurse -but she also very much doesn't want to be fined or loose her license to run a pool for letting a woman nurse. Now the couple of women being kicked out of pools contextually makes more sense.
I don't know what the Prairie provinces are like towards nursing but I know that I didn't have any problem in Quebec, and I've never heard of anyone being harassed in the Atlantic provinces.
Naked is just naked. Do you mean to tell us that your son doesn't see his mother topless, ever? What if he had a much older sister, would it be offensive to see her breasts. Naked is just naked, and breasts are just fat, skin, and nipples. They aren't "grown up" things.
Do you object if a female baby has her diaper changed "in public". For example at a park with no bathrooms? I mean you could see her labia and who knows what else.
Actually where I live there ARE male topless bars (both for straight females and for gay men) because a hot guy with his shirt off is "hot" particularly in context. (for example if the man in question is in a cage with a bubble machine and his chest is oiled... I'm just saying)
Seeing people "make out" in public is more "adult" than seeing a breast or nipple whether its nursing or not.
Have all the men's bathrooms changed in the last decade? I seem to recall that most men's bathrooms do have men "flapping in the breeze". How will you stop your son, or daughter if she is too young to go to the bathroom alone, from seeing penises?
Also should sandals be banned because some people find feet erotic. Some people have foot fetishes to the point that they get an uncontrolled erection if they view someone's feet.
It may be "possible" to nurse without seeing any nipple, but its not consistently probable.
Any more than its 100% guaranteed that if you wear a bikini top down a waterslide you won't "pop out", or a tube top while running. Nor is it possible for a man to guarantee that if he wears a very small bathingsuit nothing will pop out. In fact my poor husband was at the park and he crouched down and his pants split wide open and he was wearing boxers that tended to "gape" in the front. Poor man. I don't see him getting charged with public indecency (or worse) even though a few of the kids got a glimpse.
And as many people have pointed out many places in the US and Canada women are legally allowed to go fully topless, should they choose to.
How much practice have you had at breastfeeding? Then don't lecture on what is possible or not while breastfeeding.
You are still doing the same things I mentioned in my previous post. I'm sure Annie didn't need you to put things in perspective for her or anyone else on here.
I'm amazed that you continue to go on about oppression (and continuing your arrogant comments by telling me to look it up) given your arguments here.
Well, I guess we're good then, because I have never been nude in public while breastfeeding my child! And neither has any other woman I have ever met who was breastfeeding in public.
As breasfeeding is not nudity, indecency, or immodesty, and you have already stated you don't have a problem with the act of breastfeeding, any further objection must be to something else entirely then.
women wear burqa in Canada, too. /derail.
@nicole - Yes they do, which is what I referenced below in response to a number of comments: http://www.phdinparenting.com/2010/01/27/covering-up-is-a-feminist-issue/#comment-35499
I think that part of the aversion to a nursing mother's breast stems from fat phobia, as well. The kind of disgust I have seen for women feeding children in public is a lot like the reactions I have seen to heavy women in revealing clothing. You should be ashamed! I should not have to look at that! Seeing you violates my rights! Stinks of the same kind of sexism and hatred of women's bodies, to me. And for the record, I whip 'em out whenever. I'm too tired and busy to seek to protect the delicate sensibilities of people who might decide to spend needless energies being offended.
Thanks for the article!
I just wanted to bring up a point that I thought was funny. I've been talking about this whole thing with various friends and relatives today and I brought up to someone that I think I 'revealed' more in my wedding dress than I have breastfeeding in public because of the way the bodice was cut. LOL
This is true. In British Columbia a woman has the legal right to walk about topless if she so chooses. They're very focused on EQUAL rights. If a man can do it, why not a woman?
@Thomas:
"...the American obsession with breasts has consequences most Americans fail to consider: ready access to human milk is vital to babies' short- and long-term health. We are all affected by our culture's sexual emphasis on breasts and our consequent discomfort with breastfeeding in public. While people from other cultures often find this controversy inexplicable, the reasons for the controversy are obvious to Americans – even those of us who fully support breastfeeding in public. We understand that many equate public breastfeeding with lewd behavior. However, equating breastfeeding with vulgarity has dire consequences; this attitude lowers the country's breastfeeding rates which in turn affects women's and children's short and long-term health. If women are made to feel uncomfortable with public breastfeeding, breastfeeding becomes difficult, if not impossible, to sustain. Women who have successfully breastfed for long periods of time know that unless women can feed their babies anytime, anywhere, they're going to end up housebound. And it's the rare American woman who is willing to be housebound for months on end. So, many women give up breastfeeding early on and opt for the bottle."
Please reconsider your opinion. Any attitude or cultural taboo that harms babies should be thrown into history's dustbin-- not defended.
Whoops I forgot to post the link for that quote:
http://www.internationalbreastfeedingjournal.com/content/3/1/11
That reminds me of the time I was nursing my baby in our church nursery. hee hee A dad just walked in, the helper almost had a stroke (of course SHE knew I was nursing!) but the dad simply changed his babies diaper, talking to us the whole time... lol then walked out.
It honestly was a great way to 'brag on' breastfeeding. :-D
@Nicole - Agreed! To take your point one step further, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but not many people go around telling fat people to cover up. People avert their eyes. No one would dare be so rude as to say something! It would hurt and offend the person to whom they were talking! Writing a book or blog post on the subject would be extremely taboo, and yet so many people feel it's okay to spout off about the indecency of nursing in public or showing parts of their breast when doing so. I'm not against people being offended by the sight of something they find distasteful. We're all different after all, but I think people need to look away if they don't like seeing something.
Why is there a child in a cage in the second to last picture?
@uh.... I believe that is the railing of a staircase that the child is climbing.
Hahaha, Andy...this is so me! I do cover up, but not my breasts. I use a blanket around my waist! Hahaha. It covers the roll over my jeans! I could not care less who sees a breast with a baby attached, but yuck on my belly! So, it is all about what is comfortable. I guess I am more covered than some because I lift from the bottom up, but I would have a very hard time getting a breast out of the top of my tee shirts. I am completely in agreement that cover or not cover, just breastfeed. It is not the sight of 'breasts' that will make it normal...it is the reality that everywhere you go and babies and mothers are there...babies are breastfeeding! No one will care if we lift up or pull down, just that we are comfortable with the feeding of our babies with our breasts no matter how we do it. We have enough issues without making judgment of to cover or not to cover.
This is pretty much my argument on covering up during breastfeeding. I like to think that women who use blankets to nurse would be uncomfortable in a low-neck shirt. I'm okay with shirts that are just low enough to not quite show cleavage, and when I nurse I keep my breast mostly covered with my shirt, but I do not use a blanket. I think some people just have a fear of nipples showing, though.
My 8 year old boy doesn't blink an eye at the sight of a breastfeeding woman, because he knows that is normal. Breasts as a sexual thing hasn't even occured to him yet. If an 8 yr old boy sees a woman's breast in the act of breastfeeding, you simply say "that woman is feeding her child" and keep walking. They are not something to protect children from, in that context.
If we are going to allow parents to decide which body parts are to be sexual in which contexts, and ask women to cover, does that mean that a Muslim man could tell me to cover my ankles, as he would really like to keep his son pure until a later age? It's really not that big a deal for me to cover my ankles, is it? I could just do it to be polite to the views of others, right? Or is there a bigger issue there?
Ah, the old "well things are worse elsewhere, therefore your issue is unimportant" argument. Logical fallacy.
It would seem to be as the bottom half of that girl appears to be lower than floor level?
But it looks like there is a full top as there is a blanket up there?
Most think it's great to show your breast if your nor nursing. Put a nursing baby/toddler to your breast, and all of a sudden it becomes a problem. I feel like you, if it bothers you, there are several other places for you to look.
Love all the pics you posted.
Thomas, It is also your duty to educate your child on breastfeeding. By pretending it doesn't happen and hiding them form your son, you aree seuxalizing them. Breast aren't genitals at all. They serve one purpose only, to fed a child. I've nursed in front of children from all ages, they harrdly noticed because they were educated on it. They knew what was going on, it was normal to them. My son will be 3 soon and i could care less if he saw a woman breastfeding. It's my duty to educate him and hope he views the nursing mother as just that. Not something to hide. You are comapring breastfeeding and using the breast in it's appropriate manner to genitals. When in fact, you viewing it as "genitals" is inappropriate. Fortunately, there are laws to protect breastfeeding. Breastfeeding in public, covered or uncovered is not against the law.
[...] eyes than it is for a woman to dress in a way that makes her feel uncomfortable.’ Exactly so. Covering up is a feminist issue by PhD in [...]
Completely agree. My sons have certainly seen enough of my breasts, considering the older was bf until 2.5, and now at 5, frequently sees me nursing his now 2 year old brother (who obviously sees them too LOL). It is completely normal and natural to them, and frankly, I'm proud that they are "growing up" knowing what breasts are actually for. And definitely preferable to them being bombarded with sexualized images of women (clothed or not) on billboards, magazines, TV...
They may not say it to the person, but many say it to themselves, or others :( It seems it's really only OK to be "exposed" (by whatever definition) in this society if one is young, thin and pretty (and not breastfeeding!)
[...] eyes than it is for a woman to dress in a way that makes her feel uncomfortable.’ Exactly so. Covering up is a feminist issue by PhD in [...]
Great post Annie! I love all of the pics! And what a great message!
That's been my experience. I haven't been able to breastfeed yet - but when I see people complain about it, i've seen them complain about moms who are both covered AND uncovered. It seems to be the act itself that frequently bothers people. The visible breast is just an excuse. I don't entirely understand WHY it bothers people - that makes no sense to me, but then the people who say "ewwww breast feeding" don't make sense to me either... :)
I love the strong visual component of this article. I think it really helps breastfeeding moms in the US and other western cultures to look around the world and get some perspective on our own little squabbles over what is right or decent regarding dress and/or breastfeeding.
It seems like oftentimes people think what's "right" is what they are used to seeing, and anything unusual is "creepy" or "offensive" and controversial to do or promote. Sadly, the upsurge in formula and bottle feeding over the last century has made breastfeeding an unusual thing to do in the US.
Now that breastfeeding has attained this controversial stigma, women have to become or be born tough and unafraid to feel comfortable nursing in public (or nursing at all). I never intended to write about things like this, but it seems like a major issue in breastfeeding advocacy. The science is there (though more research and communication is always needed), now we need more social and legal progress!
Heather
I personally cover up when I'm out nursing just because I've got one of those kids that will pop off and stare at anyone or anyTHING interesting. I lovingly call her my Superdistractababy. I'm not hiding my nursing from the world, I'm making my life easier (and my nipples less sore from that 180 degree neck turn while still latched on - ouch!)
Beautiful Annie. Bravo.
While I respect the opinion of others on this matter, I, like Thomas, respectfully disagree. I am a mother and I have breastfed my son for 12 months and have actually nursed in public without having to flash others. I made sure I did not do this because I feel it is an issue of modesty and with my religious beliefs I make sure I am modest when I am out in public.
I do think that more people need to breastfeed and be aware of breastfeeding - but I do think there are modest ways to go about this agenda.
And that's my opinion from a woman who does (or did - I think we're weened now) breastfeed. I don't mean to cause up any sort of stir on here. I just wanted to share my opinion.
@Kristen: The whole point of this post is to point out that if you want to nurse in public without flashing others because you are comfortable being modest (by your definition of modest, which is not a universal definition of modest), then great. But others shouldn't be held to your standard. They should feel free to cover more or cover less than you do.
[...] Covering Up is a Feminist Issue, says Annie of PhD in Parenting — click over to this one especially if you and your computer are capable of viewing pictures. Lots and lots of beautiful, pointed pictures. [...]
breastfeeding in public--with or without a cover--IS normalizing breastfeeding. for me, it all depends on what i'm wearing. if i can get my boob out without exposing my whole back/side/stomach, i don't use a cover, but otherwise, i'm thankful for it.
having a cover (or scarf or wrap) has made me feel comfortable nursing in places i would otherwise excuse myself from--like church. i don't miss out, and i hope, breastfeeding is seen as natural and normal--without my exposure distracting anyone from worship.
I am in the US, not Canada--but there is definitely an element of "that [breastfeeding] is disgusting" in addition to the "that [your breast] should not be out in public". As others mentioned, a woman nursing, showing no more than a woman right next to her in a low-cut top will be approached but her companion simply showing cleavage minus the baby will not. I've also had conversations with several (educated) people who did not realize, I assume, that I breastfeed my children, and who told me that they find breastfeeding "gross" or what have you.
I'm replying to several of your comments at once.
Any comparisons to penises completely miss the point. A penis is a sexual organ. With perhaps the exception of the 1960s in the west and certain very small subcultures, sex is a private act. For hygienic reasons, defecating is also generally a private act as well. Eating is not.
Yes, rights end where another's begin--but you have no right to "not be offended" by the sight of someone breastfeeding. Just as you have no right to "not be offended by the sight" of an interracial couple holding hands.
The laws in many cases do distinguish between public obscenity and breastfeeding and are correct to do so.
I have yet to see, or even hear of, a woman stripping down, waving around her breasts, and screaming "I'm about to breastfeed! You must look at me!" However, a nipple might occasionally be visible. That's not intentional, that's just how it works.
To quibble and say it is only okay if it meets your standard of decency is to put up barriers that make it onerous to do the right thing for your child.
One more point--my daughter was confused the first time she saw a bottle. I simply told her that's how some parents sometimes feed their babies. I imagine the same statement works in the opposite case, no? Or should I tell other moms to only bottle feed as long as I don't see that ugly rubber thing. It might confuse my children, after all, and force me to answer questions.
An issue I have with seeing a burka as a "choice" and therefore possibly "empowering" is that my understanding is it is darn difficult to see out of one of those. Of course, there are people from free societies who make choices that both run contrary to their culture and that also hinder their freedom of movement and full participation in society (such as certain body modifications). I may find that deicion odd but because that choice isn't part of the a social structure geared to demean them, I can see it theoretically as a "choice". In the case of the burka (or foot binding or genital mutilation), however, the culture is strongly influencing the individual to make a choice that is restrictive and therefore I have trouble seeing it as anything empowering.
I also can see a society's strong and rational interest in requiring that at least the eyes of a person is visible. So, I don't equate that with telling one gender to cover up their chest.
@Candace: With regards to the burka being uncomfortable and therefore unlikely to be a choice, there are also things that are very uncomfortable that North American women choose to do. There are heels that are uncomfortable to walk in, push up bras that are extremely uncomfortable, waxing and plucking of hairs from various parts of their body, etc. But for some reason, they choose to do it.
Annie--perhaps I am not expressing myself clearly? It isn't the discomfort. It is the restrictiveness. It is the way that it intrinsically, in a very fundamental way prevents participation in society. If there were two-way glass out of which the woman could see perfectly, that would be another issue. Then I could see it as possibly empowering in allowing the woman to gaze freely while preventing others from gazing at her.
I also said that while some counter-culture people might choose body modifications that similarly hamper their participation in society, this is not influenced by a patriarchal culture.
So it is the restrictiveness of the "choice" PLUS the fact that it is influenced by a patriarchal culture that makes it hard for me to see it as an empowering choice. It is an AND construction, not an OR.
I also have a hard time seeing heels that are so high as to substantially impede movement as a feminist and empowering "choice" but it is both a restrictiveness and a patriarchy on an objectively lower order than not being able to see well because you've been influenced by a culture that so diminishes your humanity that you are viewed as chattel.
[...] Covering up is a feminist issue, PhDinParenting writes about the insistence by certain people that breastfeeding mothers [...]
[...] a wall, cover up? Or do you like to show the world when you feed? How important is it to cover up? Covering up is a feminist issue | PhD in Parenting Reply « Previous Thread | Next Thread » addthis_pub = 'netmums'; var [...]
Loved it! Basically, do your own thing and respect people who do theirs.
Exactly!
[...] To not let anyone tell them to cover up or strip down [...]
[...] To not let anyone tell them to cover up or strip down [...]
I love this post and i could not agree more. Choice is the issue and anything that promotes a woman breastfeeding whenever and wherever her baby needs her is perfect for me!