Can We Talk About the Parental Food Police?
Saturday, September 7, 2013 I never aspired to a career in law enforcement. The whole idea of trying to police a set of sometimes logical and sometimes arbitrary laws through a combination of rule setting, surveillance, "keeping the peace", and punishment gives me the hives. But when it comes to food and children, I sometimes (often, actually) feel like the parental food police.
I've been trying to write a post about this for a long time and didn't quite know where to start. Then I read an article in Brain, Child by Nina Badzin called Losing the Handle on Treats and knew that at least I wasn't alone.
If I struggled so much to control my sugar cravings, then why haven’t I been stricter about how often my kids can have that kind of junk? My intentions were good. I didn’t want food to be an enemy in our household. I wanted the kids to know how to eat certain foods in moderation, and I didn’t want them to ever divide their lives into “good days” and “bad days” based on nothing other than whether or not they’d refrained from dessert or sugary snacks. In my desire not to become the food police or create discussions that would lead to an unhealthy focus on weight, I’ve lost touch with how to talk about food at all.
In our case, it isn't just about the "how often", but also about the "when". It isn't just about the dessert and sugary snacks (although it is often about that), but also about promoting a balanced diet. Every time I'm in the kitchen, lovingly preparing a nutritious meal for my family, my kids will cry out with requests (demands) for snacks. "I put some vegetables out on the table for dinner, you can snack on those if I you like," I say. But that is followed by cries of "I don't want that" or "can't I just please have a piece of bread?" or rummaging through the fridge and helping themselves to cheese or asking me to cut some carrots because they'd prefer that to the peppers and tomatoes that are already on the table. Or when dessert is two cookies, but they really want three. Or it is three cookies, but of course they want four. Or they want two cookies and some of the Skittles from their loot bag. Or they don't want that kind of ice cream, they want the other kind.
Let me be clear. This post isn't about my ability to say "no" or to say "yes" or to say "get it yourself." The point of this post is that I don't want to be the one saying any of that. I want to get to a point where my children see me in the kitchen lovingly preparing a nutritious meal and say "that smells great mom" and then quietely go about their business or offer to set the table instead of interpreting their sense of smell as the need for an immediate snack. I want to get to the point where my children appreciate that there is a reasonable amount of dessert to eat and that reasonable doesn't mean continuing until you feel ill from so much sugar. I want to get to a point where they recognize that we eat as a family and this isn't a restaurant or a store with unlimited choices. Reasonably, I think these are things they should understand by now because I have been repeating it over and over again. They are six and nine and I think some of it should be starting to sink in.
Here's where I would like to get to with my children and food:
- I would like them to not ask for or seek out snacks right before mealtime because it is rude, because they end up not eating their meal, and because the snacks they are choosing don't provide the nutritional value that the balanced meal does.
- I would like them to think about nutrition and balance when choosing snacks and realize that while pretzels are a reasonable snack sometimes, having only pretzels all the time isn't going to get you the nutrients that your body needs.
- I would like them to self-regulate the amount of "treats" that they eat so that they aren't taking in too much sugar and unhealthy fats and other nutritionally void or damaging ingredients, so that their bodies, their brains, and their teeth will be able to function in the manner that they are supposed to.
Can I police these things? Sure, I can for now. But I don't want to (see paragraph one) and I also know that we are getting closer and closer to a time when they will have to self-regulate and we all remember what happened to the kids who had way too many rules at home when they went off to college for the first time, right?
Ultimately, I want them to care about their health more than they care about their cravings. But how do I do that when I haven't necessarily fully achieved that myself? How do I do that when much of society struggles to do that? How do I do that when so much of our consumer culture revolves around treats and satisfying our cravings right now?
If you've figured it out, I'm all ears.
Reader Comments (50)
Whew! Thought you were going to call me out as the fuzz when I read the title. Here's how I do it: http://kyhealthykids.com/2013/05/22/teaching-kids-to-love-food-that-loves-them-back/
Ugh with the food police role. I've gotten to the point where I answer every food request with "and where's the protein?" I feel like a mashup of the "Where's the Beef" and the "I've Fallen and I Can't Get Up" ladies of the 80s.
My eldest offers to top everything with cashews just to get more sugar. My youngest heeds me almost never, and might actually be living on pretzels. Behind my back.
I lovingly prepare nutritious meals. I talk about sustaining energy and making sure to treat your body in ways that help it grow and play and learn. I talk about treat foods and growing foods.
And I think I might be burning more calories doing all that talking than I do with the rest of my parenting.
I try to pretend that if I keep it up long enough, smart food choices will eventually sink in.
But even that hope is wearing thin...
I think you just have to lay down the law. It takes time but eventually, they get it. I always remind myself, and them, that they go the whole school day without snacking every minute of it... they have set snack times and they survive. I ignore the crying, the screaming, the foot-stomping if they don't like hearing me say, "no snacks, it's almost dinner time." Don't give in, be firm and consistent, and eventually, it'll click.
I haven't figured it out. My kids are only 5 and 2 so I have a LONG road ahead of me for this. But it IS something that I have lots of opinions (as someone who works in the fitness industry and is planning on picking up a nutrition degree to go with it). So, my thoughts in no particular order:
--6 and 9 are still very young. I know it seems like forever given how often you're repeating the same things, but they're still young enough that to expect them to have "gotten it" by now is a little premature. Especially, as you've mentioned, most adults haven't even figured it out. So, take a deep breath and keep reminding them the "house rules" regarding food, whatever they may be. It will sink in eventually!
--If it's a "sometimes" food, don't buy it regularly. I don't regularly keep cookies, cake, ice cream, etc. in the house. Dessert doesn't happen nightly, only when we feel like treating ourselves to frozen yogurt. I *do* make cookies in bulk and stick the cookie dough balls in the freezer, but those still require enough effort and time (you still have to turn on the oven, wait for it to heat up, let the cookies bake, let them cool, etc.) that they are also a special treat and not something we do regularly. I also don't regularly buy potato chips, or other empty calorie snacks. This is a big one. If you don't have the food in the house, then you don't have to police it. (Upside: if it's not in the house, you won't eat it either, which is probably healthier for you as well).
--We always DO have an overflowing fruit bowl from the local farmers markets, dried fruit, nuts, trail mix, veggies, hummus, ranch dip, freeze dried fruit, etc. I put these things in the kids reach, with the trail mix portioned out into 1/4 c. servings. They can grab what they want, though (so far) they always ask first.
--The kids do frequently ask for snacks right before dinner (usually if they've forgotten their earlier afternoon snack because they were having too much fun playing), and often it's because they *really* are hungry and dinner just isn't ready soon enough. If we're within 10-15 minutes of dinner, I hold firm and say no because dinner is almost ready. If dinner is going to be longer than that, I'll give them choices of lower cal less filling snacks so they'll still eat dinner. As a general rule, if they are really hungry they'll take what's offered. If they don't, the are most likely seeking a snack out of boredom, or because they just want something sweet/salty/crunchy in their mouth. In those instances, I try to redirect them toward something else to eliminate the boredom factor.
--Kids will most likely follow the lead they grew up with when they become adults and begin cooking for themselves and have their own families. So while they may be rejecting everything (or so it seems), every nutritious meal they see you make, that you serve them, is making an impression. They are learning that food for nourishing our bodies and mind, that it is prepared at home and does not come from restaurants or freezer sections and these are the habits that will follow them for the rest of their lives.
--they're old enough to help with dinner. Studies have repeatedly shown that when kids are involved in the preparation of food, they are more likely to eat it. The 9-year-old in particular is old enough to choose a menu once/week and prepare it. When you're making a meal plan (if you do that) let him/her know it is his job (sorry for the gender pronouns, I have two boys) to pick a nutritious meal that includes fruit/veggie, carb, protein, etc., make a grocery list, and prepare it one night. (Upside, it gets them working with the food instead of begging you for it during dinner prep). Both my boys help me cook and bake. My older son mostly likes eating veggies as I chop them (but hey, he's eating veggies so I'm ok with it) and my younger son just likes to stick his hands in and play with flour or whatever. But they're still involved.
--We explain why we need variety in our diets, why different vitamins are important, and why, even if something is healthy, we shouldn't make it all we eat. I try to thoughtfully answer my kids questions about this, even when I feel like I'm answering the same question over and over and over and over again. Often, what sounds like the same question to us as parents is actually subtly different in their minds. A 5-year-old doesn't understand that the answer to "why can't I have applesauce again?" isn't the same as "why can't I have trail mix?" when I've just offered him either fruit or veggies as the only options for a snack right before dinner.
--You are helping them build a relationship with food. Hopefully a healthy one. And relationships of any sort don't happen overnight. A good relationship takes time and patience to build, and helping your kids develop that kind of relationship is going to take the same time and patience.
--Finally (I did say I had lots of opinions), don't forget the fitness aspect of health as well. Exercise is something that kids also need to develop a positive relationship with. And it shouldn't be seen as something you do to "earn" a treat, or to punish yourself with for over-indulging at a party. It should be seen as something fun to help keep you healthy, your bones and muscles strong, your brain working better, reduce stress, prevent your risk of a myriad of debilitating, if not fatal, medical conditions and disease, and an important part of your lifestyle. I don't like the idea of connecting food and exercise (other than to say food helps provide the energy we need for exercise), but when talking about establishing healthy eating habits, that's only half of the equation when it comes to addressing a healthy lifestyle. We need it all!!
I'm so glad you've continued this conversation. (And thank you for linking to my post!) I liked some of the ideas from the comments on my post to pick two nights a week for dessert and that's that. Others suggested one treat per day, but that's where the policing would really come in. Who went to birthday party already that day? Who had a treat at school? I have no desire in that kind of micromanaging.
As you know I have the same issues and I relate to your desires to have the kids show some of appreciation and understanding about the purpose of food and all that goes into nutrition and preparation. I'm not holding my breath on that particular piece of it for now. I guess my goal is still less sugar. I haven't made any changes yet since my post . . . I am seriously considering the few day a week option.
Food is such a hard issue for adults, which is why it's an issue for kids . . . who then become adults with issues and so on. Bad cycle. :(
Holy hell I hate this whole subject. I especially hate the five generation cycles of obesity on BOTH sides of my family and how I was taught to use food for comfort by overt example. I also hate that, while my son can walk away from ice cream or any thing really that I know he likes when he's had enough, since infancy my daughter could and would eat until she threw up - breast milk. Child had soothing issues which runs I the family.
I REFUSE to police their behavior but I do control the environment. No school lunches or hormone laced school milk. No soda in our house. Koolaide shows up once every two years. Sometimes means special occasions.
When it comes to discussing behavior we focus on HOW you feel and listening to the wisdom of our bodies. Vegetables are required eating but plates need not be cleared. Also good fats like in fish and avocados help our brains send signals and moderation is what matters most.
This is hard. My great grandmas (strangers) were FAT during the Great Depression. Fat AND poor. We short women were built to survive famine because we store it well and require very few calories. The modern industrial food complex is our worst enemy. My biggest goal in patenting my daughter is to help her establish and maintain a loving atonement with her body. My son is like his dad and I envy them that connection to their satiety that I struggle to feel. With women and body image tied to emotional eating we need social workers not cops.
I understand not wanting to be the food police, and the frustration that can come from it. I've been there, too. All I can offer is that it takes a lot of time to teach kids those things and it is an ongoing discussion as they grow and begin making food choices for themselves. It's harder once they hit middle school because by then they have more of their own money, freedom, and opportunity to eat whatever they like, so instilling this now is the best idea. The rules we had applied to everyone, not just the kids. It's just how dinner and food works in my house. The underlying message in our parenting with food though is that it's never a reward or punishment. Food is social and something to be explored and enjoyed as a family.
Being consistent is important. Leading up to dinner, after a particular time(4pm) the only snack available was veggies on the table, and if Kev wasn't hungry enough to eat those, then waiting was the only option. Whining and bothering me in the kitchen = being sent to his room. I found that if he had a snack right after school that contained protein, it really helped to tide him over to dinner. Would it help to have dinner a little earlier if the kids are so hungry?
At our table, we have always had what we called the "peanut butter sandwich option", which applies to everyone, to this day. If there is nothing on the table you want to eat/feel like eating, you still have to sit at the table and participate in dinner, try a bit of the food, converse, help clean up, and then afterwards you can quietly make yourself a peanut butter sandwich. It's not a favourite but it's nutritious and better than nothing. It was employed a little more when Kevin was younger, rarely is now.
Also, if I won't eat dinner, nobody is even required to try it. I will eat everything, so this is pretty rare. (It happened once!)
Treats weren't a no-no (you know know I love to bake), but the amount was limited. I never served dessert but homemade cookies are always in the house. Kev could have 2 cookies per day. He could choose to eat them in his lunch, after school, or after dinner. He could split them up (1 in his lunch, 1 after dinner), but 2 was still the limit. Period. By around 10 or 11 he could figure out that too many treats made him sick. This could also be because a few times he actually made himself sick at parties etc when I wasn't around. Portion size when it comes to treats is an important concept, and made for lots of discussion. We modeled it too, but not having large amounts of treats ourselves.
I really got Kevin involved with the prep, shopping, cooking, and we even toured some farms, etc. Food has been something to explore, here. It's a hands on family activity. Instilling the knowledge of where it comes from, how it's made, etc naturally lends itself to him making better choices when he's older. Also, I firmly believe that providing kids with real, good quality food from the beginning and avoiding highly processed food keeps them from choosing the processed stuff later on. If they haven't gotten used to the high amounts of salt, sugar, and fat they often won't even like it. Of course, all the marketing to small kids is atrocious and misleading. We let Kevin try particular things at least once, but we called them (and treated them) for what they were. Chocolate dipped granola bars were chocolate bars, fruit snacks were candy-and both were doled out accordingly.
The best thing was just to not buy the junk food at all. If it's not in the house we don't eat it and nobody missed it.
I also took the emotion on MY part about dinner and food out of the equation. It's my job to prepare and buy the food. It's their job to eat. They simply aren't old enough yet to make their own choices, and advertising /marketing still is a influence. I used to get my family to rate their dinner/lunches (on a scale of 1-3 when young, 1-5 when older). I asked them to specifically say what they liked and what they didn't. Getting specific feedback helped me to be more aware of what they liked and didn't like, and as Kev got older and his tastes changed, I could keep up and adjust accordingly. It helped them to communicate without fearing they'd hurt my feelings. I'd score it too, and sometimes it was interesting if I didn't like something and they did!
I don't think you need to feel that it's something that having too many rules make them go crazy. It's more like you want it to be a discussion, an ongoing lesson that grows and changes with them as they get older and begin to understand it more. We made exceptions on birthdays and special holidays, which was fun. As Kevin became older, we also relaxed on policing him bit by bit. Interestingly enough, he stuck to the limits that we had. Sometimes he'd indulge, but often he'd comment that he "had enough sugar for one day" and choose something healthy.
Also Kevin became older we talked about labeling, marketing/ads he was seeing, portion sizes, what his body needed, etc. Food was never a reward or punishment, and I was very insistent that he learn to pay attention to his body and eat when he's hungry, and don't eat when he's not. We've watched Fast Food Nation, Food Inc, etc together and talked about it a lot. Kids learn about their bodies a lot in science class when they are grades 7-9, so this helped as well.
Now at 17 he loves the occasional energy drink (which I hate), but I know that I can't control that. However, he realizes that they aren't good for him so has limited himself to one a month. It was then that I knew he really understood.
I think the bottom line is not to look at it as a control thing, but rather an ongoing discussion where you teach them, according to their age and what they can understand, about food and their bodies. If you make it fun, engaging, and delicious, they will learn. It just takes time and effort.
i applaud everything Karen said.
i don't have kids of my own; i've had to borrow them from friends and now have a niece and three nephews. My involvement caring for my youngest nephews has been from birth so they know that i love food, expect them to be involved and that i want them to enjoy what they eat AND be healthy.
Karen has the best preventive solution: If junk isn't in the house, it ceases to be an option. What saved me with my nephews, when they were younger, was that i didn't know where the junk was. ;-) Now, they know *exactly* where it is: granola bars for breakfast, goldfish crackers half an hour later, etc. They come to my place: hmmm. No crackers. Fruit. Veggies. Hummus.
i am NOT a paragon. It's because i am in the mess i am that i do not want to see my niece and nephews end up with health challenges the rest of the family has. They are young, vital and extremely active and they have some pretty good instincts if they can just get a little good guidance along the way.
They love gardening and would sooner visit the berry farm than the Golden Arches. The two youngest helped me make a hot milk cake when they were 3 and 4. The mixer was their first power tool. (i threw them in the tub whilst it baked so the cake wouldn't fall.) We had it mounded with berries. (Note: Mise en place cannot be overrated.)
Have a look for Karen Le Billon's "French Kids Eat Everything". A lot of wisdom in that book. Preemptive wisdom.
What Karen said. ;)
Talking is essential. Discussions about healthy food, balanced eating, timing of snacks, the problems with fad diets seen in our community, reasons WHY, these are all important and ongoing.
We have the try it/peanut butter sandwich option, too. We also strictly enforce manners (most especially with my 6.5 year old girl). You are NOT allowed to say you hate supper at all, especially not before you try it! You may say you don't like it, but not hate. We reinforce that we eat as a family, and this is not a restaurant. The children have some input into meals, so they have some control over what they eat.
What your kids are doing, endless snacks, etc, seems identical to what my 9.5 & 6.5 year old children are doing, which leads me to think part of it is developmental. I am constantly reminding the 9yo not to snack just before supper. (Actually, this is phasing out a bit, hallelujah!) It gets pretty emotional at times, as the children and I all get snarly as we get hungrier. But it's better.
My daughter at 6.5 is a treat junkie, and I need to not buy any more for a long while. Huge victory this weekend, though - she's actually starting to snack on apples again. She had stopped for about two years. It was rather random, what fruit or veggie she would eat on any particular day.
My 11.5 year old son is doing very well. He is mindful of the times we eat and the timing of his snacks. He is very aware of the importance of balanced eating, and is becoming quite adventurous in his eating. It is a delight, but a long path to get here. There are days when all three kids eat non-stop, and that can be hard to adjust to, as well.
One thing I have done is made sure they eat more protein regularly. This helps. We also don't have in the house many empty snacks, regardless of how delicious, because they aren't worth the battle for moderating them most of the time. I do have homemade, from scratch, baked goods, because I know exactly what goes into them, and they seem to fill the children up for longer. But that is not a constant either. Dessert is also a sometimes treat, not a regular event. It is just not necessary, in my opinion, given the vast amount of junk & sweets that are otherwise available to all of us in the course of a week. (Oh, and we balance food intake over both the day, and the week.) I want all of us to be physically and emotionally full and complete after a healthy supper, not from the hit of sugar from dessert...
I feel your frustration. I wish us all luck instilling a healthy eating culture all around us. :)
I have a four year old and a one year old, and the 4 yr old drives me nuts with the constant snack requests. She will eat lunch and within an hour be asking for a snack because she eats so little at one sitting. I don't want to make her eat beyond being comfortable, but I wish she'd eat enough to be full for 2-3 hours.
I've gotten really tired of carrying snacks for every outing we go on so lately I've been telling her if she needs a snack to get one before we leave the house, or I'll tell her, "You ate just 30 minutes ago and we are only going to be gone for an hour; I'm not going to bring a snack." And when she whines about needing a snack, which she always does, I tell her it's okay to feel hungry sometimes.
Kids aren't born with that knowledge, and it's especially hard with all the advertising that targets kids that sweets are so great; even beyond that when commercials say that that sweets like sugary cereal ARE good for you. It's hard for grownups to decipher, let alone kids to know what is the right or wrong decisions about food. So I think for now you and I have to be the food police in order to teach them the rules of the land. There will be a time when they will have to make their own decisions about food, probably when they leave the nest and are in college or in adulthood and we only hope that we've given them the proper tools and information and habits to make those decisions.
I remember you tweeting about this, and I could so relate. I have a 9 yo and an almost 6 yo, and while the 9 yo more or less "gets it" in the sense that if I tell him he has to wait for dinner, he usually will without whining, the 6 yo is another story. Unfortunately, his whining for snacks while I'm preparing a meal also coincide with the times he's expected to amuse himself, so I fear he already associates eating with a cure for boredom. Not good. As someone else mentioned, I have been known to tell him it's OK to be hungry between meals! Dinner is coming, and if I have to stop to prepare a snack, we're all waiting longer. That said, he also has a chronic illness where he will go a couple days not eating because he's ill. So he seems to make up for it when he's well, and we feel like anytime he's hungry, we want to take the opportunity to get nutrients into him.
The other thing that I struggle with I outlined here: http://mum2beautifulboys.wordpress.com/2013/02/28/trapped-in-candyland/ While we work hard to limit the treats that are even available, there seems to be constant influx, and then we're in the position of having to police that. Just the other day a parent dropped off her son for a playdate--and brought them each a huge cookie from Starbucks. Right before dinner.
My 9 yo is good in that he's starting to recognize that certain things make him actually feel ill. This doesn't stop him from wanting treats, but he may make a conscious decision not to finish that huge piece of cake because last time, he got a sore stomach. He's the real reason we go to McDs even less often than we might--it never fails to make him feel sick, and it is now not worth it to him. I like to say he keeps me honest the couple times a year *I* feel like going through the drive thru :) 6 yo though, he has a stronger stomach, and though has never had dessert after breakfast, will still ask, just to see what he can get :(
Oh man, I am SO with you. And I don't know the answer. Hoping someone here does!!
I wanted to add that as kids become teens, they go through growth spurts where they really are always hungry and seem to be constantly snacking. I'm astounded at how much food Kev can put away. When he was a younger teen we always encouraged that he have fruit/veg, hummus & crackers, a hard boiled egg, etc. I think it's funny that he still sticks to the two cookie thing after all this time.
Someone mentioned re: treats and how they only did home made, so when it's gone it's gone. Same in our house, mostly because of allergies.
Smaller portions of high quality, really good food is far more satisfying.
Annie,
This really resonated with me. I'm sick of the battles, the whining, the complaining, etc.
I confess I need to stop buying some of the stuff (no, my kids don't get soda or potato chips or candy every day, nor do i keep them in the house). So there's problem # 1. Problem # 2 = twins who are 7 and picky eaters. One of them leans more towards vegetarianism and will eat all the broccoli on her plate but refuse the chicken or fish. The other one will chow down on the fish but cry and gag and throw a fit about eating 3 spears of broccoli.
They understand healthy choices, but I think mine are still to young to choose them as often as I'd like.
But again--most of it starts with me and what I'm buying at the store. I guess it doesn't matter that I get PopChips or pretzels or Goldfish (in that those are better options than Lays or Ruffles or Doritos, etc)...I need to just quit buying the stuff I don't want in the house.
And the snacking before dinnertime around here is also a problem. I feel like the police/referee all the time and it sucks. It's harder when it's a healthy snack (i.e. Izzy will eat carrot sticks til the cows come home), b/c I want to encourage that...just not right before mealtime.
HUGE sigh.
When sugar based products are in the house it's a battle. For me and everyone else. Two cookies is never enough. I am all about not keeping sugary foods in the house. Ice cream is a treat at the ice cream store or dessert at a restaurant. Cake is for birthdays, holidays, special occasions. I let my kids know that I too know what is like to wish we could healthfully live on ice cream and chocolate but we are helping to build string healthy bodies when we eat the foods I encourage. I have categories in which there is junk and junk-junk. No level of junk gets packed in school lunches. Junk-junk is kept for outside of the house. That minimizes the lower level junk to post school after dinner. It ends up minimizes the junk to a manageable level.
it’s just turning toward autumn here and while our teen sons were at a friend’s house yesterday, we stopped by the orchard and bought a dozen apple doughnuts.
this morning, my husband expressed surprise that the boys hadn’t had a doughnut last night. but i pointed out that they would never eat a doughnut at night — we aren’t in the habit of eating dessert in the evening. they just wouldn’t think of it.
(we all love dessert — we just don’t have it at night.)
establishing a solid routine has probably gone the furthest toward helping *all* of us (adults and kids) in our family establish healthy eating habits. it exerts a powerful momentum that keeps us mostly on the straight and narrow, and it also has given the boys an experience of balance so they know what feels “right.” if they overeat or eat too much of one kind of food, they recognize it right away.
that solid routine also helps us avoid friction. there was never a point at which they would ask or pester or we would have to argue because we didn’t vary our routine enough to throw things into question — maybe if i ask/pester, i can get XYZ? would never enter their minds, i think. if things were more random, they would probably push for what they wanted in the moment; because things are unchanging, they never think of asking for something else.
How about trusting that your children will eventually figure it out on their own if you never coax, punish, withhold, or do any sort of manipulation around food? This is the radical unschooling approach, and it works for many families. I've also watched as a family who did the whole limiting sweets, pushing protein or whatever they thought was more appropriate struggle with a child who has a strong appetite for sweets, is overweight at 10, and has early puberty signs (I have no idea if it's due to her weight or because she eats conventional meat and dairy, or maybe just genetic). I am far from perfect, but I've seen may whose kids can self-regulate, not because their parents "taught" them (by limiting food), but the opposite, because they taught themselves to listen to their own bodies.
By the way, thanks for this. It's a reminder of how I want to change to be more of a radical unschooler.
I have the same thing with the kids and the snacking before dinner. My solution is to always have dinner on the table at 6pm but I have that luxury. Up until 5pm, the kids can have an apple if they are hungry, and if they are really hungry, they can make up the veggie plate and snack while they do that. They are 5, 7 and 10. There are days the 5 year old is at the one making up the veggie plate or out in the garden picking lettuce for salads because she is hungry.
Our post dinner option is oatmeal. mmmm oatmeal. and we talk about what foods have in them that helps us grow. We also have the evil, empty calorie treats, like chips or french fries, once a month or so, then the kids (and my husband) don't gorge out of sight and we portion them out. Yes, I mean weighing it or counting chips. When I do those junk food moments, I include them in my mental calorie counter for the day.
The other thing I do is try different flavours of food when I cook. Real food smells and tastes better than any prepackaged stuff out there.
Lastly, when I make cookies, they get sweetened with real molasses and only half the sweetener the recipe calls for, so yes, they are getting the occasional cookie, but it at least has some redeeming qualities.
Annie, I don't really have any answers. My girls are still young - 3 (almost 4) and 11 months. My 3yo has a big sweet tooth, just like me, but so far she seems ok with me limiting how much sweet stuff she eats. That will probably change though ;)
Just wanted to tell you my personal experience....I had a mother who was quite strict about sugar. She was the mom who made Kool-Aid with 1/4 sugar, and we always thought that was normal :) I grew up an extremely picky eater. My mom was always trying to get to me to eat vegetables, and I think the only ones I tried were cucumber and carrots. This lasted into my teens, and I tended to eat poorly (think Zoodles every day for lunch!!!). Then I moved away to university and had to start cooking for myself. I had roomates in nutritional studies, and I slowly began learning to read labels. I had many years of food "battles" with myself, over indulging on some days and then restricting on others. But in my loooong journey towards healthy eating, I learned more and more about what meaning "real food" has in my life.
So at 33yo, you can find me in the kitchen every day, cooking or baking up a storm. I make mostly all meals from scratch, we have a huge garden, and I incorporate a lot of local/healthy ingredients. I'm also super adventurous - there isn't much I won't try now!!
So, as a recovered picky/sugary eater, I can tell you that children will grow up to emulate their parents. You are giving them the right skills, and I know policing isn't what you want to do, but letting them decide everything for themselves just doesn't work that well....humans are designed to crave sugar, salt and fat, and children have a hard time self-regulating that desire.
Wow! What a great response. I'm really enjoying reading through both the stories of people who are in the same place and the ideas from those who have some of it figured out.
One thing that has come up several times, and that is of course common sense and also common advice for people trying to lose weight, is simply to not bring the treats into the house. As an adult feeding myself, this has always worked really well for me, except for the one year in university when I lived across the street from a convenience store where I could get ice cream at 11pm if I wanted to. That said, I find it harder with the kids. Not because I'm bringing a lot of treats into the house, but because the treats come in from other places. Birthday parties, Halloween, Christmas, Valentine's Day, Easter, last day of camp, "just because", visitors, relatives, last day of lessons, special activity, and so on. We usually still have Halloween candy when Christmas arrives and still have Christmas candy at Valentine's and still have Valentine's at Easter and so on. The only way to not have it in the house would be to tell the kids they have to throw the things they are given in the trash and not bring it home. Is that what people do? We've been rationing it (food police) and I wish they didn't get as much of it, but I also don't like the idea of just throwing it out (although we do purge periodically).
Plus, of course, I do like to choose some treats every one in a while. So on top of all the things that come from other places, there are a few things that I've chosen either because I like them or because I think they are better than lollipops and Skittles, for example.
Jennifer R:
Being "laissez faire" is certainly one option and is one I've considered before. Beyond my concern that they wouldn't have a balanced diet (which may or may not work itself out over time), I worry about waste. What would a radial unschooler do in a situation where a child takes a snack and doesn't eat most of it or fills a plate for dinner and then throws most of it out? Just talk to them about it and hope they make a better choice next time and accept the waste as a part of the process?
Laura:
French kids don't eat everything. That book is a myth. ;) They also don't always behave at restaurants.
Karen:
Thanks for all the great ideas.
Eating dinner earlier isn't really an option. I prepare dinner as soon as we get home and the only way to have it ready earlier would be take-out (not really the direction I want to go with this!). But the kids do have an afternoon snack at school and I bring them a snack when I pick them up at school, so they're getting two snacks between lunch and dinner. So they shouldn't be starving.
But it doesn't seem to matter if it is dinner or weekend lunch or weekend breakfast. If they are awake and I'm near the kitchen (and sometimes when I'm not), they're begging for food (or sugary treats). I think I'm reasonable about allowing snacks if it is going to be a while until dinner or offering the first part of dinner up if it is ready (e.g. vegetables). But that doesn't stop the requests.
Sara:
Fitness isn't an issue, thankfully. Both kids love being active. It isn't something we have to convince them to do.
Thank you for this. I deal with the exact same thing. When prepping a balanced meal and hear my 4 year old whine for a snack or when he sees his meal and says, "that looks gross," I've been responding with variations of "Did you mean to say thank you mommy for taking the time to make dinner for me."
One day...one day...I will raise a grateful, nutritionally aware child, but sometimes it feels like an upward battle.
Re: spontaneous treats from everywhere else - We do limit them, and do sometimes toss the stuff. Or, I send it to my husband's office for the bachelors there to eat. ;) Kidding aside... For Halloween, as an example, we don't let them go to too many places, then the haul is brought home, and sorted. It's equally divided among the three kids, with some set aside for Mom & Dad. Stuff they don't like like is tossed. (It is somewhat wasteful, but not like we're throwing out fruit & veggies wasteful.) The first Saturday after trick or treating is their day to eat all the candy they want, after a good breakfast. They are reminded how they felt the last time they did this, then left to their own devices. After about a week, if anything is left (and there usually is some), it's usually tossed.
As for the rest of the junk, a healthy food (or three) first, then a treat. We are (un)fortunate to not have much family that lives by us to provide these extra unwanted foods, and the vast majority of the people in our circles are on the same page as us about healthy eating, and so we don't have tons of excess from outside sources. There is always some, though.
And the bad manners (ie, whining and begging for snacks? Consistent reminders of good behaviour, praise for when they are mannered first, and time to grow out of the phase they are in. As with everything else.)
Now, if someone can advise how to deal with an 11 year old boy with a former steel-trap mind, that can't remember any simple one step directions, never mind the multi -steps he's had mastered since he was 18 months old?? Anyone? ;)
I have a lot of hang ups about snacks and trying to get the right kind of snacks into my lot. I was raised on an appalling diet of crap. My Mum is a lazy cook so our main meals were bad enough. We then also had the "treats" cupboard that was constantly full of cakes and crisps - they were regular items on the weekly shopping list to keep that cupboard stocked and we had free access to it. I grew up to be a very picky eater and have a raging sweet tooth. I was also a (UK) size 16 for my entire teenage years and carried a fair bit of excess weight - we were never encouraged to be active either. I don't think I appreciated how bad it was until I met my husband, aged 18, and saw what he ate and how his family did things. It's been a real education.
I worry less about the immediate impact of eating sugar than I do the habits that are being taught if I give too many treats. I also know that I have very shaky willpower and if the stuff is in the house, a LOT of it will get eaten by me. I was extraordinarily lucky with my second child because I lost over 30lbs purely from breast-feeding him - a feat I would NEVER have achieved on my own and I'm desperate not to ruin it now that I'm the slimmest I've ever been!
My family are, however, still an issue. My entire family eats tons of cakes and, what's worse, brings bags and bags of sweets and cakes to our house when they visit. My aunt came the other day and brought the kids some sticker books. Lovely, I thought. "You can't give them chocolate all the time," she said. "It's not good for them. Oh, there is a little bit in that bag." I counted a large bag of Jelly Babies, a large bag of chocolate stars and 4 small bags of chocolate counters. A little...?! My children are 4 and 2. This is also a family where my Gran and my Mum are now Type-2 diabetics, another aunt is massively obese and the remaining siblings are definitely on the larger side. Yet none of them seem to see the connection between the crap diet and the health issues...
We try to be healthy as possible in our cooking and the kids, who are now nearly 5 and 2 (third on the way!), are quite good at their veg, etc. "Pudding" is generally fruit or yogurt and only if they completely finish their meals - we tell them it's extra food if you're still hungry rather than a normal part of a meal. I try to have a rule that if we want cakes, etc, then we make them ourselves. It's a fun thing to do and time constraints mean it's not all the time. I don't like the idea of banning foods completely, just teaching them good habits. Same with drinks - everyone says how good our two are for drinking water but that's all they've had with meals since they were 6mths old.
Despite un uphill struggle with my eldest, who was excessively fussy as a toddler, we are getting there I think. I don't thank my parents for how we learned to eat and I do blame them for setting me up to strugle with food as an adult. I hope that my children will be able to say better about me.
Great post Annie! A post I think many of us parents can commiserate with. We talk a lot about food in our house, not just the good, the bad, and the ugly but how it tastes, feels etc and how it makes us feel. So far, working towards getting my children (5 and 7) to make associations with what they are eating and how they feel (later, yesterday, after that party) seems to be helping us make some progress in them making better independent choices. I guess this is still a form of policing. Over the summer I got so frustrated with the snacking and incessant asking for food, I made them a self serve shelf in the cupboard and fridge. Together we compiled a list of snacks to stock the shelves. We all made compromises. For example, over the summer 100% juice freezies were a snack choice (their choice, my compromise), but I only buy enough for 1 per day and if they run out that's it until the following week. If there is any complaining I calmly say that we can sit down again at the end of the week and make changes, but for now those are the options we all agreed on. So far so good, for now...
We have a few "house rules" if you will, to help with limits and expectations. We have a limit on the amount of fruit the kids can eat (because they would eat nothing else otherwise), and they can't have snacks within a certain amount of time of dinner. Some snacks are "anytime snacks" (like vegetables, hard boiled eggs) and some snacks they have to ask for (processed food snacks like crackers or baked treats). They know what the rules are, even at 4 and rarely ask for anything I would say no to. (Ex: If I baked cookies, they know those are for school lunches and they get however many I put in their lunch, and they don't get them after school as well.) We also have a very limited number of treats coming into the house for a variety of reasons, so a lot of the time it is just not there for them to demand. If something like a loot bag comes into the house I have them pick out the items that they really like and throw the rest out. We don't waste treats on stuff we don't really like.
If their eating patterns change, like all of a sudden they start asking for lots of snacks or making snacks a meal, I try to see if there is an underlying reason. Maybe they're growing (the 4 and 14 year old are both going through huge growth spurts) and they need more for lunch. Or last year I started giving them dinner at 3pm for a while, because they were so hungry after school because their school lunch break is at 10:30. So instead of snack-snack-snack after school and ruining their appetite for dinner, i switched their dinner time and they had a reasonable before bed snack. That meant we didn't eat dinner as a family every night for a while, but I still sat with them and asked about their day. It was less than perfect but served a purpose for a time. Sometimes kids will want food just because it's yummy and it's there - just like the rest of us - but sometimes their bodies need something and it takes a little detective work.
To be perfectly honest, sometimes I think the amount of anxiety that we put into what our kids are eating or not eating, and what we are eating or not eating, is just as unhealthy as eating a ton of junk. I was raised in a house where no one ever talked about food, though my mother was a weird 70s throw back who belonged to a food co-op and never let us have sugar. In spite of her best efforts, I was a sugar addicted, junk food loving, vegetable hating maniac my entire youth. But as @ Misty (I think?) said, I grew up and started cooking for myself. I had good principles from my mother, but it wasn't because we talked about food and calories and sugar and the evils of white flour every day. We ate healthy, fresh good tasting food, and when I grew up I wanted to eat healthy fresh good tasting food. And this happened even though by the time I was in high school we had a lot more "junk" (ie mainstream) food in the house. I guess at the end of the day, I don't believe in "bad" foods and "good" foods, only regular foods and sometimes/small amount foods.
My kids have a sweet a day (and frankly, I would rather them have dessert after breakfast than dessert after dinner), usually a home made treat but occasionally some gummy bunnies or whatever. We never eat dessert, although the kids eat yogurt every night before bed as snack. (We also don't really do holiday candy, except I guess Halloween.) I do try to encourage protein with their snacks, but I also don't sweat it if they eat pretzels every day for snack. The only thing I police is my littlest one's juice consumption, because he could drink a scary amount of juice.
I know many parents who have a snack area that's filled by the parents, and then the kids have the freedom to go and pick anything they want *from that limited set of choices.* I remember one parent saying she wouldn't refill the more prepared/packaged stuff (crackers, etc) untill all the fruit had been eaten. In addition to that, a good friend of mine has a treat box he fills for his kid once a week, and then his son gets to choose when and how to eat the treats (usually something like chocolate covered almonds). He said at first his son would eat it all on the first day, but eventually started spacing it out and saving his treats for later in the week (this is a 5yo btw). I think I'll do something like this when both my guys are old enough to handle that.
Have you read the book "My Child Won't Eat"? It has really great information about kids' normal eating patterns, why children's appetites vary so much from food to food and day to day and why the things we are taught to think of as "healthy" (like vegetables and lean meats) aren't designed to be consumed in large quantities by children primarily because, while they are high in fiber and vitamins, they are low in calories and so children instinctively avoid filling up on them since they would not get their calorie needs met with just those foods. When I read about that I thought back to when I was vegetarian and eating at a restaurant that didn't have any vegetarian options. They brought me a big plate of delicious sauteed vegetables and after I had eaten about half of the plate, I realized that I had never in my life been so full and so starving at the same time. The fiber filled me up but I probably got about 75 calories from it and so I was what kids often say: "full for broccoli but still hungry for bread!" Also, the thing about highly processed food is that it is specifically engineered to override our bodies' abilities to self regulate, so expecting children to be able to self regulate consuming junk food while they wait for a healthy meal is unrealistic and sets them up for failure. My son is only 2 1/2 so I can't give any long term outcomes, but my policy is to offer every food group (in small quantities!) at meals and snacks and let him eat whatever he is hungry for. If he eats all the meat and asks for more, I get him more even if there is still tortilla, apple and cheese on his plate. This means that some days it seems like he eats all meat, some days all fruit, some days all bread, some days what looks like a "balanced" meal and some days he doesn't seem to be hungry at all. Overall, I see him getting a very balanced diet and we don't have food battles. We haven't totally banished fruit snacks, pretzels and cookies from the house, but we snack on them after meals and NEVER use them as a reward for eating "healthy" food. I would rather have him less hungry for dinner after a pretzel snack than learning how to override his sense of being full by force feeding himself three extra bites of spaghetti so that he can have a cookie too. Like I said, I can't say whether this will pay off when he is 7 or 8, but for now it is peaceful, low stress for me and, I believe, healthy for him.
Give the behaviors you want lots of positive attention. Use the methods in the book "Everyday Parenting" by Kazdin.
Post the ANDI charts on the fridge:
Here's one:
http://wholisticnutrition.blogspot.com/2012/09/andi-score-chart.html
And there are lots more:
https://www.google.com/search?q=andi+chart&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=yLQxUsa2BJGy4APIvoDACA&sqi=2&ved=0CD4QsAQ&biw=1141&bih=802&dpr=1
We used a similar chart with our kids, but it's no longer available that I can find.
Perhaps a better chart and info on ANDI:
http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/andi-food-scores.aspx
Numerical ranking got my kids' attention for some reason and helped.
Also, ignore all the verbal complaining, or if you can't bring yourself to fully ignore, limit your attention to them, give curt responses with no face-time, don't engage in discussion or argument. You get more of what you pay attention to, or (getting technical) attention is a positive reinforcer.
Make unhealthy foods hard to access. Don't buy them, put them high in the fridge, put them in hard to open boxes. (Might be inconvenient for you, which might be good thing huh?)
The book "Incredible Years: A troubleshooting guide" has a good section on dealing with mealtime behaviors.
i have been lucky so far my daughter loves eating healthy fruits and veggies.
http://beingadaddyisajoy.blogspot.com/2013/09/first-born.html
My thought is to try and learn what they are actually craving. I've learned for myself that I have to know what it is that's driving the craving. Then I can seek out the healthy option. Then teach your kids what our bodies are trying to tell us when we feel the sweets/junk food bug. I think many people said it well already, but teach good principles of health and moderation, and exemplify it as much as you can is going to be your best bet. I didn't care what I ate as a kid...and then it didn't matter so much. But I learned how to take care of myself so that when it was important (like when I started becoming more incharge of my choices in middle school and high school and then went off to college) I knew how to do it.
If your kids are eating behind your back you are already in trouble. I had a friend whose mother was that way, moderating her food. All she did was eat when at my house. When she was with her mother, food was always at issue with what she couldn't eat, what she had to eat, which meant all natural, tasteless food. When she was not with her mother again, food was at issue, because now she could eat without her mother's disapproval, and she would ask for anything normal, hoping to get a cookie at least. She cried at one of my birthday parties due to food restrictions. Staying at her house was weird, due the food choices her mother had. And my parents never fed me junk food, but we had a normal diet where real, quality food was to be enjoyed, including lots of vegetables. But even though I was no stranger to broccoli, I could not take her mother's food. She bought special everything, things that were nonordinary, natural, and tasteless. Unfortunately, this friend of mine has had food issues for life, we are in our forties now. While people who place emphasis on their diet find it can cause problems with relationships in the family, for kids it practically borders on abuse, because kids can't have a normal childhood. It is inadvertent, and one means well and all. You know what they say about the road to hell being paved with good intentions. The answer is to take more time to prepare home-cooked meals. That means starting with real food. When you have a delicious stew with good vegetables, no one cares about pretzels. So make a banana bread. Let your kids put butter on it for goodness' sake. Have good juices and milk and good water to drink, and who would want soda? It isn't about trying to force "health foods" on kids and police their food. It's about getting back to basics, back to good cooking from scratch, finding out the delicious things you can really make with spinach, like quiche or spinach balls. Teach them to cook healthy and really enjoy food, make kitchen time family time, instead of teaching them how bad, bad, bad snack and fast foods are and making the kitchen an uncomfortable place. No kid who has a home cooked meal from Mom wants McDonald's, soda or pretzels, anyway. And if they do eat cookies, teach them to make some good ones from scratch, maybe with oatmeal and raisins. What about apple pie with apples just picked? Don't deny the happiness that comes from food and celebration. Just think turkey and gravy and green bean casserole, not Domino's Pizza, but not brown rice from the health food store either.
I sure don't have it figured out, but I LOVE the websites for Ellyn Satter and for the Feeding Doctor. They both address these issues in somewhat radical but, to me, sensible ways. (Both also have books.)
My daughters are 7 and 9. I do all the "don't keep treats around all the time," "keep healthy snacks within sight," "you choose what food, they choose how much" business. I've also got this whole family meal planning system going where everyone is asked for suggestions, and then we vote on new recipes that get added to the "family favourites board." The kids help select and prepare food, AND we don't have commercials. Still, most days it all seems for naught.
(1) Remember the Long Game: As a friend of mine says, "Nothing gets rid of hunger like offering fruit and vegetables." Kid-culture is all about maximizing junk food. For some reason, overeating is, like, a sign of awesomeness. This is going to change over time. Knowing that there are better and worse food choices - and having a bit of a framework about how to make those choices - is going to make those decisions easier to make when they are older.
(2) You are not the only influence in your kids' lives: Even though mine are amazingly adventurous at dinner time, lunchboxes are a different story. Sometimes another kid said, "eww... tomatoes!" Sometimes, vegetables and cheese just doesn't look as interesting when other kids are chowing down rice krispies and cookies. Don't even get me started on how kids media deals with food.
(3) "Your job is to be their frontal lobes": This is what my very wise father-in-law says. Obviously, the younger they are the more frontal lobe work you are going to have to do. Maybe our expectations need to be tempered.
(4) Let's repeat the parental chill out mantra, "There is no perfect way to panic": I have friends who's parents had strict no-pop on weekdays rules who became coca cola binge drinkers in university. I also have friends who's parents had no rules and who have the same problem. So, really, just relax.
I'm a dietitian and I'm working on making my kids intuitive eaters. Trust that their bodies know how to make the correct food choices. Here's a great article on it.
http://intuitivemamablog.com/jamielee/
Trust that kids CAN become intuitive eaters but know that food companies are doing everything they can to undermine this. Push back against food companies marketing to kids so they can better hear their internal hunger/satiety cues.
I think those are 2 separate issues. If they are allowed to be intuitive eaters, they will listen to their internal cues and not the outside "food noise". Same goes for adult intuitive eaters. Messages are always bombarding us about food. Commercials, other people's judgmental comments and shaming, the diet industry etc...Intuitive eating allow us to trust our bodies and feed ourselves the foods our bodies need AND also enjoy. Do I think marketing junk food to kids is wrong, yes, but intuitive eating is a great way to combat those external messages.
I don't see those as two separate issues because marketers deliberately target and exploit developmental vulnerabilities in children:
http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/resource/marketing-children-overview
We don't put up anymore with Joe Camel undermining our efforts to raise healthy kids and should not put up with it from the food industry. As an adult, I recognize I do better with intuitive eating if I shape my environment to avoid marketing messages that tell me to eat for reward instead of internal hunger cues.
Children do not have this same power and it is also inappropriate to expect them to have this kind of developmental maturity. As a previous commenter put it, "Your job is to be their frontal lobes" because we know someone else's job is to take advantage of the fact that their frontal lobes are still developing.
You either trust their bodies/our bodies or you don't, there is no in-between. If you're implying that external marketing has been proven to override a child's natural ability to be an intuitive eater, I think we're dealing with class and privilege issues. There are many children who don't come from a socio-economic status that allow them to have any CHOICE at all when it comes to food. Food deserts are real. Poverty is real. Children are overweight but still malnourished. Again-I think these are 2 separate issues. Children who have access to all kids of foods-including "junk" food, do not need anyone there to TELL them what to eat. The kids who don't have anything to pick from other than soda, juice and prepackaged meals don't have the same chance to make healthy food choices.
You said children "do not need anyone there to TELL them what to eat" but that's exactly what's happening with food marketing to kids. Intuitive eating is an important piece but not the complete answer when it comes to raising healthy kids in today's food environment. It needs to be supported with an understanding of Ellyn Satter's Division of Responsibility in Feeding and advocacy efforts to fight food marketers getting to kids while they are still developmentally vulnerable. This is important for all kids but especially critical for those at an even greater risk based on social determinants of health.
I guess I don't understand what your intervention for families who practice intuitive eating would be?
I am not suggesting interventions for individual families. In fact, I think there is too much emphasis on dealing with food issues at an individual family level and not enough emphasis on dealing with them at a societal level. I think that also explains why so many people see the issue of food marketing to children as completely separate from intuitive eating instead of seeing how they are connected.
I have found Ellyn Satter's work very useful. Are you familiar with it? It transformed our family dinners. I read her "Your Child's Weight: Helping without Harming." Here is here website: http://ellynsatterinstitute.org/htf/howtofeed.php
Well, I think this blog post pertains more to how individual families figure out how to navigate feeding issues in their households. Policy issues can have a broad impact but most families just want to get through the week. I'm very familiar with Ellyn Satter but thanks for the link.