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Friday
Apr022010

Knee jerk or just jerk? 

A friend of mine was at swimming lessons with her family. This visit to the pool was nothing out of the ordinary. They swam. She nursed her toddler. They got ready to leave and headed out to the parking lot. As they were putting their children into the car, another family tossed their young child into the backseat of their car, didn't put her in a car seat or buckle her up with a seat belt, and started driving away. My friend banged on their car and told them their child had to be properly secured. That it is the law. The mother turned to my friend and said "stop breastfeeding your daughter" and drove off with the child still unbuckled.

Huh?

Parents, and mothers in particular, seem very apt to react emotionally to any criticism of their parenting, whether warranted (as it was in this case) or not (as it is so frequently). It even goes as far as people reacting emotionally to anyone else supporting a parenting choice that is different from their own. These emotional reactions do nothing but fuel the mommy wars. I think if we all took a moment to think and reflect in the face of any direct or indirect criticism, rather than responding in anger, we'd all be a lot happier and like each other a lot more.

Knee-jerk reactions make you sound like a jerk. Period.  If someone does criticize your parenting, whether warranted or not, stop and think before you respond. Use rational arguments rather than shouting irrelevant or unrelated insults or criticisms in return. It will make other people like you a lot more, but more importantly, I think it will make you like yourself a lot more too.
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Reader Comments (111)

Kayris:

You are right. You don't need to defend your parenting choices. I think that the way you reacted in all of those situations was fine. It also would have been fine to say "it is none of your business". But if you had said: "oh yeah, well isn't your kid a bit old to be sucking her thumb?", then I think that would be an inappropriate response. Insulting someone else, just because you feel insulted, isn't going to help anything. That was the point I was trying to make.

Also, I wasn't trying to say the woman is always a jerk. I was trying to make the point that society often seems to pass off knee-jerk reactions as acceptable, but I don't think it is appropriate/useful to act like a jerk (even if you aren't always one) just because you are put on the defensive.

April 3, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

I think it's appropriate and useful to cut people some slack. Not in regards to not using a carseat, but in her reaction to the knocking on the car, etc. Sometimes people catch us on bad days. I think it's worth it to not take things personally and shrug it off. Had I been your friend, I would have shrugged and said, "Suit yourself. Have a great evening."

A friend of mine took her family to the zoo and rather than pack a lunch for 5 people, they ate at the snack bar. And some guy looked at their burgers and fries and said, "Oh yeah, THAT'S a healthy looking lunch." And honestly, my response would have been to tell him to fuck off. HE was the rude one and I ddn't feel like she had any obligation to explain that it was a treat or that yes, they were aware that her son's weight was an issue.

I'm also a little surprised at the number of people who would call CPS over carseats. Perhaps CPS in Canada is different than the US, but in many parts of the US, the system is so broken that calling CPS can be worse for the child and can end up with them being removed from an otherwise loving home and put into a place where they face abuse, neglect or worse. I've heard so many terrible stories about the failings of CPS that I would NEVER call over carseats.

April 3, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterKayris

I don't think my friend took the breastfeeding comment personally. I think she was more left shaking her head and wondering what the heck it had to do with the situation.

April 3, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

Interesting post and discussion. I'm not sure that I would call failing to properly restrain a child in a car a 'parenting choice' though. When you're talking about something that is illegal and dangerous, it moves from being a simple matter of choice and 'to each their own' to a matter of community responsibility. How you feed your child, how you dress your child, how you choose to (legally and not abusively) discipline your child... these are all choices and there is, quite rightly, a large variance in the community. But just as I don't get to choose which road rules I follow and say 'oh, I just would really rather NOT stop at the red light, it's my CHOICE', parents don't get to choose which road car laws they adhere to with regard to restraining their children.

If someone was teaching their child to shoplift, would that be a 'parenting choice' too?

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterSpilt Milk

To those who think the friend was wrong for being confrontational (and I will admit that I would've been too cowardly to do so) - car accidents are the NUMBER ONE cause of death to children in the US. NUMBER ONE. Above choking, above kidnapping, above ANYTHING else.

If you saw a stranger's child wrapping a cord around her neck, would you say something? If you saw a stranger's child going off with ANOTHER stranger, would you say something?

I really hope we all would. And yet we're shy about the most dangerous thing of all - car safety. We're kind of inconsistent creatures, us humans, aren't we?

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterTheOneTrueSue

Exactly.

I've been quite shocked by the number of people who thought it isn't anyone's place to tell someone else to ensure their child is properly restrained. Not at all what I expected the conversation to be about.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

Children's Aid in Ontario, while not a perfect system, can be a great resource to families who are struggling. They are able to provide education and connect the family with community resources and support as appropriate. Their goal is to keep children with their families and help families to function better - they will only remove a child from the home in extreme cases where the child is at immediate risk of harm. They would probably not apprehend the child in this situation, but might provide the family with education re: the importance of child seats and the laws around them. Or they may not act at all, but at least by reporting you've attempted to ensure that the child is being adequately protected. Even Children's Aid says "when in doubt, call".

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterRebecca

I completely agree with you. I tend to react in a pretty emotional way when people criticize me. Especially when they happen to be touching my child at the time. Holding my baby's hand and telling me she is too cold or something of the like. It rattles me. But you are right being calm and responding politely would be a better thing to do.

However, what I took away from this post is that your friend let this woman drive off with her child not buckled into the seat. After reading the first few comments I saw that she called the police but the police are the wrong people to call. She needed to call Child Protective Services (or whatever the equivalent in Canada is). They are the ones that deal with these kinds of things. They are the ones that can help. They are the ones that can monitor the family.

As adults, as people, as adults we have the obligation to help. Because when that kid goes flying through the window at 65 miles per hour it is on everyone who saw, who knew she drove that way and did not call. Oh sure it is on the mother who put her there - no doubt. But when we do not call it is on us too. Now, granted the first time they go out to this person's house all they do is say "You have to put that child in the car seat." but if people keep calling about it they will do something.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterUpstatemomof3

My friend is a car seat technician and former foster parent. I'm sure if she did call the police (rather than CPS), it is because she knew that was the appropriate thing to do here.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

One more thing. I just reread this and it sounds like I am criticizing your friend but I'm not. She called the police. They should have asked her to file a CPS report. She has no way of knowing that CPS is a better place to report this if they do not tell her. I apologize for sounding like she was wrong. I was reacting more to the commenters who were saying it is no one's business and to stay out of it. I hate that attitude. When a child is being hurt or is in danger it is everyone's business.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterUpstatemomof3

Oops!! Apology below. I wrote it before I even saw your response. Again, my apologies.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterUpstatemomof3

No need to apologize! The right thing to do is so different from one place to the next and also depends so much on the effectiveness of each of those agencies/organizations in any given jurisdiction. That compounded with vastly varying opinions on whether it is right to intervene or not makes it very complicated waters to navigate.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

As a car seat tech myself, I can say that I, too, feel an ethical obligation to correct misinformation when it is presented by another parent on one of my parenting boards or if I see one of my friends in a situation with mis-use or non-use of a child restraint. A complete stranger, on the other hand, I refrain from intervening unless they they are asking for help (i.e. in the middle of a store and talking w/ their partner about a car seat question)...then I'll butt in.

Some states in the United States do have hotlines that you can call for mis-use or non-use.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterMelanie

I like the distinction that Spilt Milk has made between "parenting choices" and the law. For example, it is a parent's choice to feed his/her baby formula or breast milk. But the law dictates that you DO have to feed your baby (regardless if it is expensive, or inconvenient, etc.).

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered Commentercoffeewithjulie

for the record. I totally should have read this post two weeks ago. I am really bad at opening my mouth out of anger without thinking in MANY situations. Great post! Thank you so much for sharing it!

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterpocket.buddha

That is so true. And I suppose in the moment the police are great - if they care enough to do anything. But later a call to CPS is good as well. Because then they can start a file and if everyone calls when something is going on they will know who and when to investigate.

The thing about the varying opinions on whether we should or should not intervene has me thinking. I am with family today but tonight I think I will write my own post on the subject of intervening. For now I will just say that the children need us.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterUpstatemomof3

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterSarah

Helmets can make it iffy for people-especially when you have a kid that is totally dead-set against it like my neighbor's 5 year old. It's not like he doesn't have them as examples-they all wear helmets, but he will freak out every time. Nobody's sure why. They still go and he walks, but it's rough. Depends on the culture of where you live too, Rebecca.

They do give helmets away around here, which is nice. I am definitely a proponent of helmets (ask my college aged students-I get on soapboxes every now and then about it).

I also agree with Boozehound about biking without a helmet vs. XBox all day. A lot of parents will choose that not because of 'logistics' but because they don't have time to attend to what is currently thought of to be the safest. The helmets my mom had us wear when I was growing up in the 80s are now considered unsafe.
I think video games for kids are pretty unhealthy and pretty bad for development (visual attention, language and motor/strategy skills) up to certain ages-immediate risk or long-term risk choice here, like letting your kids walk to/from school. I have to 'mind my business' at other people's houses who let their 3, 4, 5, whatever year olds play videogames frequently. TV babysitting just really gets my blood going too. It's like my own personal car seat "thing".

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterSarah

The kid isn't actually IN imminent danger, though. There's a difference between a woman fixing to drive her kids off a cliff and one who is frustrated by a tantruming child and drives home without strapping the screamer down first.

The first woman is pretty much certain to kill the kid, and the second stands much less than a one-percent chance of doing the same.

MY GOD HOW COULD SHE?! is sort of a typical, but not especially helpful, reaction to the situation. One wonders how this discussion will strike us all in thirty years time. Seems reasonable to me to say that history doesn't always view our narrowminded holier-than-thou tendencies all that kindly in the long run.

So, yeah. Call CPS. That'll work.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterBoozehound

I meant to say that I'm usually driving by in my car so I DON'T say anything (re the bike helmets issue).

And, yes, I yell at jaywalking pedestrians but only when they nearly walk into my car or don't even notice that I'm there, and it's only because I was on the ball that they didn't get hurt.

By the way, it is the law to wear bike helmets where I live, just as it is the law to ride in a carseat until age 9.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered Commenternatalieushka

As far as the helmet thing, I'm more talking about the sheer hassle involved in locating the properly sized helmet for each kid; getting all their shoes and pants on can be a daunting enough task that tracking down/putting on four or five helmets can be the thing that makes you say, "fine, just play XBox."

There's a lot of reasons kids sit around on their butts more than they did when I was a kid. The idea that the acceptable number of childhood accidents and fatalities is *zero* is a big one.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterBoozehound

Calling CPS may not work. But it is what you can do. If you see a child in danger you should call. Maybe that family has been called in 10 other times and this will finally be the time they go out and look. Maybe that family is being investigated and this will be the time CPS actually has proof and can do something. You don't know. But if you do not call they cannot get help. And really what does it take from you to call? Does it really inconvenience you that much that you cannot make a simple phone call to try and help a child? Come on!

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterUpstatemomof3

The assumption that CPS generally offers what you could call "help" is worth questioning.

"Maybe" every family you see is being investigated and the proper authorities are all just waiting for the least little tip-off to round us all up and institutionalize our kids with professionals who actually know what they're doing.

Moms are mostly just amateur hacks. ;)

Should we as mothers act as policemen? I'm just not interested in that sort of community dynamic, but I know it's loads of weird fun for the mommies at the top of the heap.

What I do suspect is that Annie's buddy just lost any sort of opportunity to influence that mom over the long-run.

She just made herself "someone to be avoided even if it means the kids never go to the pool again."

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterBoozehound

I think this is where I would draw the line if I were asked to, too.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered Commenternatalieushka

The acceptable number of childhood accidents and fatalities that I could have prevented by simply opening my mouth *is* zero, as far as I'm concerned.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered Commenternatalieushka

Ah, the miracles we ascribe to our opened mouths. :)

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterBoozehound

This is “the friend” weighing in. As many of you have pointed out, context is everything.
The swimming lessons were first thing in the morning. The child (three year old girl) had a private swimming lesson every week. The parents drove in a Mercedes Benz SUV with a child restraint installed in the rear. The child was involved in a full-blown tantrum. Her parents were having a great deal of difficulty managing her and their manhandling of her before she was put in the car was almost worthy of a call to the Children’s Aid Society.

I banged on the driver’s side window as it was pulling out of the parking lot (with the little girl standing on the back seat) and said, “In Ontario, your child is required to be in a car seat.” As they had Quebec license plates, I thought this might be a nice way to remind them about their legal obligations in a neighbouring province. The message was delivered as non-confrontationally as possible. When they made no move to change the status quo, I phoned the police.

I don’t regret my actions – although I admit I might have done it a little differently if I’d had more time to think – but I hope the parents will remember that their child’s safety supersedes the challenges of trying to strap a child – mid-tantrum – into a car seat (I’ve had to do it, it’s not fun). The breastfeeding comment was completely irrelevant and irrational, and as they had already left the parking lot while I was trying to connect the two issues (car seats, breastfeeding), I did not have the time (nor do I have the inclination) to respond.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterThe troublesome friend

While some people may use safety concerns as excuses for a sedentary life style, I would prefer to remain active and live life, but manage the risk. Use seatbelts and child seats to reduce risk in cars, wear helmets to reduce risk on bikes, wear life jackets when on the water... Accidents happen, and fatalities will too, but a lot of them can be prevented with a minimal amount of effort.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterRebecca

Has she talked to the principal of the school? Maybe school weight could be thrown in to bear there. I know at one kid pick up area of my kids schools they always stopped the cars to make sure everyone was appropriately belted for age and size. (They enforced an 8 years and 80 lbs car seat/booster rule in that state at kid pick up-even though it made for a longer kid pick up for smaller kids like mine who couldn't belt themselves in. Not that I minded. I hated being the freak worry mom who always made her kindergarten child sit in a regular 5 pt car seat.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterTW

Having read the comment from your friend, I wonder if this wasn't an Ontario/Quebec thing. If you think that mamas go at it, try playing that provincial card.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterHowie

I live in Quebec and work in Ontario. I don't find it to be a big deal. It was a bigger deal when I was younger. But I don't find it is now.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterphdinparenting

Boozehound, I know exactly how much of a problem CPS can be. I know exactly how much they do not necessarily care. I know exactly how much trouble they can call in the lives of a good person. I also know exactly how much children need us to be looking out for them and calling CPS for them when people see children being endangered or abused. If you stop by my blog you will see what I mean.

April 4, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterUpstatemomof3

Yes, I am mostly torn because my thoughts are if I don't say anything I am advocating.

April 5, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterOur Sentiments

Really interesting discussion! I think where a lot of people have difficulty with the intervention is that it is unlikely that your friend would have knocked on the window and alerted the family if an adult wasn't wearing a seat belt. That's also a legal issue.

However, when it comes to children, often people do act as though everything is their business. And I'm sure the biggest part of that is because adults make their choices, whereas children are subjected to those choices and don't really have a say.

But I think that it's hard to know what was in the mother's mind in this scenario. Was she really driving off? Or was she just driving enough to let her child know they were leaving and was she going to buckle her up before she got out of the carpark and on to the road? It's impossible to know. I think her inappropriate (and obviously defensive) comment was made because she probably was feeling what most parents do from time to time - that other parents/strangers/members of the community are always very quick to assume the absolute worst of their parenting. Wouldn't it be better to assume the best possible motives given the information at hand, rather than the worst?

April 5, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterZoey @ Good Goog

While I am a firm believer in giving the benefit if the doubt, in some instances it simply isn't appropriate. This parent was putting the child at risk because it was the easy way out. I know, I've been there! We went through six months of kicking, screaming, the whole gamut every time we put DS onto his seat. The van never moved until he was buckled. Even if she was simply driving around the lot until the child calmed down it is still unsafe and should not have happened! I applaud "the troublesome friend" for stepping in an educating the other parent and for phoning the police. Maybe an officer was able to get through to her.

April 5, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterTanya

I think reminding the parents that child seats are not only the law but save lives is the right thing to do. I bite my tongue when I see parents allowing their small children to ride bikes or scooter with no helmets. Worse, I will NOT allow my son to play with a class mate outside of school because her father repeatly picks her up from school and allows her to ride in the FRONT seat of the car with no seat belt. She is only 4 yrs old.
Plain and simple, risking your child's safety is wrong. We are the parents, we need to act as such.

(ps. Breastfeeding for 2 yrs and beyond is great! Keep going, just tune out the incorrect crap about stopping. )

April 5, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterAlison

People intervene with kids because kids can't advocate for themselves. An adult doesn't have a seatbelt? That's their active decision. And id wager a guess that the adult has at least a modicum of an idea that not wearing a seatbelt is risky. Kids aren't able to make informed decisions like that for a plethora of reasons. That's why people jump to advocate for them.

April 5, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterlooneyjen

I just dealt with full-blown tantrum resulting in repeated escapes from my 3YO's booster seat, on the way home from the grocery store. I had to pull over three times because of my little Houdini. It took an hour to make it home...but I could not, not, not drive the car while my daughter wandered around the backseat totally unrestrained. I get the desire to just end the standoff as quickly as possible and get the hell outta Dodge--but that personal desire is just less important than your kid's needs. I'm with "troublesome friend" all the way here.

April 5, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterJTB

I think that's great. At our school they don't want anyone using the "kiss and ride" in front of the JK/SK yard unless the child can get out unassisted (the driver is not supposed to get out of the car). They suggest an older child or neighbour should help if the kid can't. Um, my 5.5 year old IS the older child, and he's still in a 5 pt. harness. And bringing a neighbour to drop my child off at school? LOL Anyway, to me it's encouraging parents to put their 4 and 5 year olds in boosters. If I drive my son to school, I park the car up the road and walk back to the school.

April 5, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterAndrea

I think that's a good point, I often see infant seats in cars with the handle or sun visor up, and wonder if that's OK -- my seat was not supppsed to be used that way. But I've heard from a carseat tech that some seats *can* be used safely with the handle up, so I don't say anything because I haven't read the manual of every seat (and it's been a long time since I even used an infant seat or researched them, so could be completely out of date in my info). I would certainly hate to give out wrong info while trying to be helpful! (I did however alert the police when I saw a man with an infant under 12 months old riding FF in the front seat of his Miata -- that I am certain is NOT safe, or legal!)

April 5, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterAndrea

So, who SHOULD we contact if we see someone driving with an unrestrained child, or using carseats/boosters incorrectly? That's what I'm still not sure of. The police? The non-emergency number? About a year ago we were driving on the 401 in the GTA (so, traffic was going about 120 km/hr). We saw a child about 8 or 9 STANDING in the back seat, facing the back of the car (looking at the other passengers, all adults). As we drove by we frantically gestured to them to get the boy to sit down. The older man in the passenger seat gestured/waved back with an annoyed look on his face, like "mind your own business". My husband thought 911 would be the best number to call, as the boy was in real danger. But, was it "immediate"? Was it an emergency? Or would it only have been an emergency if an accident occurred and the boy was thrown out of the car? As it happened, due to the flow of traffic we were unable to get in a position to see the plate, and were soon separated from the other vehicle. With no info I didn't feel I could call the police, esp. 911. Still, I feel awful that something could happen to that child, being allowed to ride in a car like that at high speeds on a major highway.

April 5, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterAndrea

Hm, I'm waffling on this one. I do think that it is the right thing to do to say something, but if I were the parent having a bad moment and for whatever reason didn't buckle my child in (which I can't imagine doing--I have had plenty of really bad moments, but being restrained in a moving car has always been non-negotiable in my family) I can only imagine that being called out would just make me feel angry and defensive and might not lead to the desired outcome.

But then again, I am baffled by people who in 2010 don't have their kids buckled up in the car. I'm not talking about all the sometimes overwhelming details of figuring out which car seat or positioning or installation method is best or most appropriate for your child's age and height and weight. I'm talking about the basic use of a SEAT BELT. I have been riding behind cars many times where 3- and 4-year-old children are standing up in the backseat looking out. At that age, yes, a child safety seat is still best, but even a seat belt (which I assume the car came with) would be better than NOTHING.

Still, I think it if were me in the position of saying something, I'd pretend as though it was just a mistake. Knock-knock-knock "Oh, excuse me, did you realize your child never buckled herself in?" said with a smile as if to imply that of COURSE the parent didn't know. And I'd hope that social norms would cause the parent to get that child restrained.

Of course, when you're dealing with jerks, social norms don't matter so much, so who knows if it would work. And from your friend's explanation it sounds like there was more going on here than simple ignorance or misunderstanding of the law.

April 5, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterMeagan Francis

That is exactly what my husband said. He would have gone up to the car and said - hey, did you know she never made it into the car seat. I know how crazy it can get it has happened to us. Which it hasn't - we've never driven away with the kids not buckled in but I have put the car in reverse and had my son (who is five and buckles himself) say "wait! I'm not buckled yet!"

April 5, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterUpstatemomof3

Fair comment :), but I couldn't live with myself if all I had to do was open my mouth and piss someone off in order to possibly prevent an injury.

April 5, 2010 | Unregistered Commenternatalieushka

[...] in point: children’s safety. Perhaps, in Western cultures, we can almost all agree we don’t want to place children in [...]

[...] It happens every day as the pre-k pick-up line of cars inches slowly forward. Two classes of 18 or so children, a car for each one, and you do the math. That’s a lot of cars pulling into line, creeping up toward the door where a teacher walks a student up to the vehicle and plops him or her inside, back into the loving hands of the parent, family member or day-care provider that is responsible for transportation. [...]

I don't think I can add anything to this discussion that hasn't already been said. I think I would have stood there with my jaw on the ground as that mother drove away with her unrestrained child in the back seat.

I try so hard to understand the things parents do... I write about childrens health and immune systems so I come across a lot of parents doing things that endanger their child's health in a less obvious way and I always try to give the benefit of the doubt because a lot of the time the parent's simply aren't aware or informed that what they are doing is detrimental. That's why I love educating parents about those things.

But a kid in the car without a car seat?? How do you justify that? Is there anyone on the planet that doesn't know that not wearing a seat belt in extremely dangerous? Is there anyone on the planet that doesn't know that most accidents happen within 2 miles of the home? How do you give the benefit of the doubt to that? Is that mother really that ignorant that she is saying to herself 'oh, nothings going to happen'? Do you think if she were made to watch a video with a crash test dummy toddler being launched across the car and out the windshield, she would change? It just makes me want to cry, really.

A parent putting their child in a car without a car seat is endangering their child and it warrants a call to CAS. I'm a teacher, and at our school we would report this behaviour to CAS. We also report parents routinely picking up/dropping off their children with the kids not wearing seat belts. CAS will contact the family, and make sure they are made aware of the safety legislations, help get them hooked up with a car seat if necessary, and also with instructions regarding safe installation.

April 8, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterMarianne

this is one of many reasons my 4 YO is still in a 5 point harness. once i get him in the car seat during a full blown tantrum, he can't get out. it's a perk of the extended harnessing! i agree, i will not drive with my LOs not secured no matter what!

very thought provoking post and comments, on a range of topics!

April 8, 2010 | Unregistered Commentermisstj9

My first thought was this was most likely an extended family member taking their family member to the pool. Yes, I know how important it is to have appropriate car seats for children but it is funny how automatic it is to assume these were the actual parents.

April 9, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterMama in the City
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