Wednesday
Feb252009
Wordless Wednesday: Conversations About Crying It Out
Wednesday, February 25, 2009 Wednesday, February 25, 2009 
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Wednesday, February 25, 2009 
Reader Comments (29)
Oh my well we just worked it all out eventually
These are great!
Guess we were lucky in the crying it out dept. Sometimes I cried right along with them, but it worked for usm - and after only a few nights. And our children slept through the night so well because they learned to soothe themselves. Eventually.
@jubilee - FYI, you don't need to do cry it out to have children that sleep well. All children learn to sleep well on their own with time, assuming you create a good sleep environment. No crying is required to achieve that. It is only if the parents wish to push the child to do it earlier than they are ready to that it is required.
We got a king-sized bed between baby #1 and baby #2. It was the best money we ever spent. Two adults and a squirmy toddler in a queen-size was not cutting it. ;-)
I feel so sorry for babies who are left to cry is out. I can't imagine how terrified they must be! I have a cousin who left her daughter CIO for TWO hours! And rationalized it by saying that "she wouldn't remember it in the morning anyway." Oh, that poor, poor child! :(
@Rhyay - People block out painful memories and they resurface later. I agree.
Phd- My sentiments exactly. They may not remember it when they wake up, but it still has a huge impact on their self esteem and personality.
I love the Mama Is comics, I think as much as I loved her Cow Goddess ones. :)
"@jubilee - FYI, you don’t need to do cry it out to have children that sleep well. All children learn to sleep well on their own with time, assuming you create a good sleep environment. "
If this is so true, why are there hundreds of threads on MDC from mothers who are sleep-deprived to the point of physical breakdown? Mothers with two and three-year-olds who nurse all night long? Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of full-on extinction CIO, but I'm extremely unconvinced that the MDC party line creates good sleepers.
And I can't stand Hathor and her smug, judgmental, poorly-drawn comics.
I could never let my baby cry it out. I felt bad the one time I went to take a shower while she was napping and came out to crying and I didnt know how long it had been going on!
Great wordless wednesday post :)
Love the comic! I'd always heard of "crying it out" before I had my daughter. Now that I have my sweet baby girl (6 mos old in 3 days!) I can't just "let her cry." It grinds up my insides. Not to mention she's only going to be a baby for such a short time. :)
Congratulations on such a thought-provoking Wordless Wednesday post! Here's my two cents:
I'm not quite sure what stance the comic is taking here. I do agree with Tricia in that it's pretty judgy, but I don't mind that as much as I do the lack of any constructive input. It leaves me wanting to know just what the right answer is in her opinion. I'd like to know what the right answer is, since it seems here that neither cry-it-out nor bring to bed seems to be an acceptable solution to her.
I'm a new dad of infant twins, so needless to say, my wife and I are doing what we can to survive right now. We can't cry-it-out because our babies cry in stereo... and it's quite sad to hear them upset. Our babies are pretty good about sleeping, but we deal with fussiness in whatever way soothes the fussiness at the moment. I'd really like to know from you experienced moms out there... What's the right way to handle it? If the child cries it out for 10 minutes, is that bad? If we pick them up and hold them and calm them down ever few minutes, are we creating a bad habit? HELP!!!
Some people think if you pick the baby up, you're spoiling them. But you cant spoil an infant! They need all the love you can give them. Picking them up helps them to know that you're there for them and they'll be more secure in the long run.
And with twins, it helps them to be together. My husband is a twin and he and his twin would always sleep with their foreheads touching as infants, their Grandma said she would sometimes move them apart because she was so interested in seeing how such tiny babies would move back together.
I see Hathor is still incredibly obnoxious. Good to know some things never change.
Love her comics. Where is the logic indeed.
Reminds me of a playdate we had recently. The mother was complaining about her low milk supply, then looked down and asked her two month old if he was done yet, because she's not a pacifier. When he was hungry again not long after, she made a bottle of formula instead. Umm...logic?
Tricia, people post to message boards often when they are having a rough time. So you wont find me posting a new thread on a message board when things are going smoothly, but if all of a sudden sleeping is out of whack and I am at my wit's end and need some reassurance and some advice, that's when I will post. There are many more message boards besides MDC and on them there are no shortage of parents who do practice CIO and yet are still sleep-deprived.
I'm familiar with all the studies that prove that CIO is not good for babies and mothers. I co-sleep and have never CIO. This is just my personal experience, but even though there are rough phases (isn't there for everyone?) I am always to most rested parent when I meet up with my non-cosleeping, moderately CIO friends. Go figure.
@TwinPop - no, I don't think you are creating a bad habit. You are letting them know that you are there for them. When babies are this little, their needs and their wants are exactly the same. They are not manipulating you, they are communicating with you the only way that they can. They need you to pick them up. Love them, hold them close. If it's a bad habit to make sure my child knows I'm there for him when he is distressed, then bring on the bad habits!
@jane Great response! You said it better than I could.
@TwinPop
I think the stance the comic is taking is that cry it out is bad and that bringing your baby into bed with you when you are completely unprepared for it is not a good solution either. There are parents that do co-sleep and do it on purpose because it is what is right for their family. But if you do that, you need to take certain precautions with regards to http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/01/11/co-sleeping-safety/" rel="nofollow">co-sleeping safety. There is nothing wrong with holding your babies and helping to calm them down. This will help them to develop trust and over time they will develop their independence from a base of security that you have given them. Some people do prefer to lay their babies down to sleep while they are still awake so that they learn to do it on their own and some babies will do that easily without crying, but some need a parent's help to go to sleep until they are ready to start letting go on their own.
@ Tricia
Considering that there are 12,761,180 posts in 973,466 threads by 129,076 members of which 22,217 are active members, if there are really hundreds of threads on MDC form mothers who are sleep-deprived to the point of physical breakdown, then I'd say the "MDC party line" is not doing so bad at all. If I were to go to any of the mainstream parenting boards, I would also find hundreds of threads of people saying "Help - cry it out isn't working - what do I do now?".
In my comment, I said all children learn to sleep well on their own with time, assuming you create a good sleep environment. That time for some babies may be at around 6 months and for some children might be around 3 years. For all children (and adults for that matter), there will be periods where they sleep better and periods where they sleep worse. If a child is teething, going through a growth spurt, sick, working on a developmental milestone, hungry, didn't get enough exercise or fresh air, is preoccupied by a scary situation during the day, or any list of other things, that can wreak havoc on their sleep. I don't think it is fair to discount those things or tell a baby that his feelings or needs are not important and that he should just shut up and go to sleep. You wouldn't treat your partner that way would you? So why treat a baby that way?
I think people need to do what they can to create a good sleep environment. That means giving their child plenty of exercise and fresh air during the day, having a calming and consistent bedtime routine, giving healthy foods especially for the nighttime meal, and so on. Beyond that, they need to have http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/sleep.html" rel="nofollow">realistic expectations about infant sleep and need to be patient and caring. I recognize that parenting is overwhelming for a lot of people and some of them are perhaps unprepared for how difficult the sleep situation can be with a small child or they feel pressured by society telling them that their child should be sleeping through the night or they hear all their friends saying (and perhaps lying) what a great sleeper their child is. All of this can push a parent over the edge and I am thankful that there are places like Mothering.com and kellymom.com forums where people can get the reassurance that it is okay to respond to your child's needs and where they can get tips on how to get through the rough patches and on what else they might be able to do to gently improve their child's sleep.
Awesome WW! Wish my brain was awake so I could add to the discussion, but I'm exhausted (although it's my own fault for staying up so late, we co-sleep with our 3 little ones and I don't see how I would get any sleep any other way, especially with the nursling!
So, what do you suggest for a 9 month old who will wake up every 15-30 minutes for most of the night? I don't think CIO is right, but we're left with very few options here. Oh, and we co-sleep and the pediatrician claims there are no medical reasons for this. For those who would judge me for maybe considering CIO, they obviously have been lucky enough to avoid the mind numbing and physically debilitating torture of nighttime parenting an extremely bad sleeper like my son.
@ Jill - I don't judge anyone for considering CIO. I think most people probably consider it at some point and some do decide to use it and others decide against it. What bothers me is when people assume that it is something that you have to do. That no baby will learn to sleep without it. And that there is no potential harm in it.
In terms of what I would do in your situation, it is hard to say without knowing more. If you want to send me an e-mail with some more information on your situation (including what you have already tried to improve sleep, a bit about your daily routine/sleep routine, what your baby is eating/drinking, etc.), perhaps I can ask some follow-up questions and then make some recommendations. With your permission, I'd love to post that information here on the blog as a new post so that others can benefit from it as well. If you are interested, send me an e-mail at phdinparenting at gmail dot com.
I really wish that mothers could have these conversations without judging each other. I think that one of the reasons attachment parenting theory struggles in mainstream circles is because of judgemental comics like this one.
I can't tell you how many times the subject of my breastfeeding launched another mom into a defensive, almost angry tirade about how she "didn't want to" and her baby is "just fine." Simply from my request for a private area to pump.
It makes me sad. If so many moms didn't feel so defensive, perhaps we'd have more room for conversation about alternatives to formula, cribs, strollers and the like. Everyone is different... it would be great if we could frame our conversations in this way.
Oh and by the way: I DO NOT agree with Cry-It-Out, particularly as displayed in the comic. No baby should be left to cry for an hour or more.
But to imply that a mother doesn't love her baby when she's clearly trying to do her best and desperately seeking a solution... that's quite low.
I find the cartoons incredibly judgmental and do more to break down discussion than they do to enable it. There are stereotypes on both sides of the CIO debate and all these cartoons do is reinforce them. They aren't helpful in the least.
Wow, what a smug, judgemental attitude.
For what it's worth, I'm on here looking for gentle sleep solutions, I'm not into controlled crying. But crap like this cartoon that is so utterly unsympathetic and preachy turns my stomach.
You are correct. Their DNA is damaged for life! Brain Neurons DIE when a baby is under stress! They have voices and cry for a reason. It is very simple. Their cries are there to indicate to the Mother to nurture their baby. It horrifies me that this is even up for discussion. What is wrong with these mothers? They are listening to some egotistical male doctor from the 1880's? Ridiculous!