Tuesday
Aug212012
On La Leche League Canada's Discriminatory Leader Criteria
Tuesday, August 21, 2012 
Earlier this year, I wrote about Trevor, a transgender gay breastfeeding Canadian father, who blogs at Milk Junkies. This week, as I arrived home from vacation, I learned that Trevor had applied to become La Leche League leader and was rejected.On his blog, Trevor wrote about his interest in becoming an LLL leader, so that he could "support trans guys, queer folks, and allies in their breastfeeding endeavours," ideally leading a group on Skype that would allow people to connect from all over the world. LLL, however, rejected his application, noting that its mandate is "about mothering via breastfeeding, not simply supporting anyone who wishes to breastfeed." This came as a surprise to Trevor, since he had always been welcome at his local meetings.
Trevor later posted the full text of his letter to LLL and their response to him.
Discrimination
Yesterday, I was interviewed by Josh Tapper from the Toronto Star who wrote an article called Breastfeeding dad wins support from parenting community. I answered numerous questions for Josh, but ultimately the quote he chose for his piece does a pretty good job summing up my position on this:
La Leche League Canada’s decision is discriminatory.
It is time for La Leche League to update its guidelines and recognize that breastfeeding is not exclusively a mother’s domain.
A big part of the problem, for me, is that I don't support the gender essentialism promoted by LLL in its "mothering through breastfeeding" mandate. Wherever possible, I avoid identifying parenting issues or parenting problems as part of motherhood or fatherhood. Whether people choose to identify as "mothers" or "fathers" and which role a "mother" or "father" takes in a home is a personal thing, in my opinion. Often it is based on gender, with women (cisgender or transgender) identifying as mothers and men (cisgender or transgender) identifying as fathers. However, that isn't always the case -- in some lesbian couples, for example, one of the women may identify as the "dad".
For example, Polly who writes at the blog Lesbian Dad, provides this definition:
les•bi•an dad n, neologism 1. a. A lesbian or genderqueer parent who feels that traditionally female titles (i.e., “mother”) don’t quite fit, and who is willing to appropriate and redefine existing male ones (i.e., “father”): She was a tomboy when she was a kid, so it’s not surprising she’s a lesbian dad as a parent. b. Often a non-biological parent in a lesbian family, and/or one whose role relative to the child in many ways resembles that of fathers.
I can understand LLL refusing the application of someone who has never breastfed, since their goal is to provide peer-to-peer breastfeeding support based on the actual experience breastfeeding. But to reject an application from Trevor, who birthed and breastfed his baby, and who "mothers" his child in the same way that any woman does, just because he is a man, is discrimination.
Specialty Breastfeeding Support Groups
Other than the gender issue, LLL Canada also addressed the issue of specialty support groups in its response to Trevor, saying:
I would also like to address your interest in leading an LGBT LLL meeting. I think that it is important for you to know that we do not accredit specialty Leaders. So for example Leaders often say that they need a working mother as a Leader for their Group because she can relate to the mothers in the population the Group serves - I would disagree - what qualifies a Leader to relate to those mothers is her experience of mothering, not her experience of separation.
Personally, as a working Canadian mother who attended LLL meetings from time to time (some better than others, and finally found a group where I felt somewhat at home just as we were almost done breastfeeding), I can tell you that the knowledge of some LLL leaders on the challenges and best practices in working and pumping, in guiding a caregiver or partner in bottle nursing and handling breast milk, is not always up to par. Their ability to support, without disdain for the mother who dared leave her child, is also lacking in some cases. As a moderator on the kellymom.com Pumping and Relactating forum for several years and as someone who pumped for several years, I know that first hand experience with the challenges and regular contact with women who are working and pumping is greatly advantageous to being able to provide quality advice.
It is baffling to me that LLL Canada thinks someone who has never worked and pumped would be qualified to provide me with advice on that, but that Trevor wouldn't be qualified to provide advice to breastfeeding mothers because he isn't a mother.
Is LLL a Niche Support Group?
I've always tried to give LLL the benefit of the doubt. While it often seemed to be primarily populated by white, middle class, stay-at-home, crunchy moms, I tried to believe that they could and did want to support anyone who is breastfeeding. But just as a Parliament made up of old white men (even with the best intentions) isn't truly qualified to lead a diverse country, an LLL leadership that doesn't adequately represent the spectrum of breastfeeding experiences isn't truly qualified to provide breastfeeding support to a diverse breastfeeding community.
But perhaps LLL isn't trying to support the diverse breastfeeding community. Maybe it is a niche exclusive organization targeted at a specific type of woman.
Reader Comments (80)
In case anyone wants to find out more about LLL leadership, here's the link:
www.llli.org/lad/talll/talll.html
Susan, I would like to see some evidence to support this claim, regarding LLL:
the real problem is that moms who are employed aren’t volunteering probably because they don’t have the time or the interest to help others for free.
I was a Girl Scout leader for six years, during which I progressed from employed full-time and childless, to employed part-time and mother of an infant, to employed full-time and mother of a preschooler. I repeatedly encountered troop parents and members of the general public who expressed surprise or outright disbelief that I could be a leader and have a "day job." The funny thing is that all but one of the other leaders I worked with also had full-time jobs; the one who was not a mom had a full-time AND a part-time job. We did Girl Scouts because we believed it was important and a way for us to give back to the organization that helped inspire us to become the women we wanted to be.
It's one thing to say employed moms don't have the time to volunteer--yes, it is harder to find time when 40 specific hours of your week are committed elsewhere. But saying that employed moms aren't interested in helping others unless we can get paid for it is very insulting.
Annie, thanks for raising this very interesting issue! I feel that a LLL Leader who presents as male could be problematic for many women. I personally used a male midwife for my pregnancy and birth and had no problem with it, but I can understand why many women would not choose a male midwife. I think Trevor's best course of action is to continue to participate in LLL but to take his leadership desires to an organization that supports trans parents, where he would be an awesome source of support and education!
Susan, I hope you later read enough more about Trevor to understand that he does have experience with ovulation and pregnancy--just maybe not while pregnant. A cis female whose cycle did not return until her baby weaned is still allowed to become an LLL Leader, so having those experiences is not a requirement. A woman who has not had those experiences "simply cannot know" what other women are going through FROM HER OWN EXPERIENCE, but that doesn't mean she cannot listen, comfort, suggest strategies, and help them find resources. I found that my male midwife actually was better at understanding and caring for exactly what *I* was experiencing than some of the female gynecologists I'd previously seen, who treated me like a defective version of themselves. (The only reason I no longer see him is that he moved away.)
Hi,
I felt discriminated by LLL as a working mother. I am not in the US, and here I feel they are even more strict and conservative about the 10 rules and the mother stays with baby. I felt so hurt about it! I helped building a LLL group, without me there would not even have been one in our town, I went to every meeting, every study group, every circle, read all the books. But I am a doctor, so it was assumed that I am "not all that interested in breastfeeding anyway".
As it says in the "Womanly art of breastfeeding" about working mothers. Not all jobs are "that" important. Not every woman is a neurosurgeon. - Obviously not - but some ARE! (I am not a neurosurgeon but a pediatric surgeon and do believe very much that mothers like me should stay in the working field because they actually understand the frightened families!
Still - as a working mother I was unfit to become a leader. That hurt very, very much! Plus, I was not even contacted anymore after I started working again. I was really shunned.
See the link I posted above for the relevant questions and wording about mother-baby separation, in the LLL criteria for applying for leadership. It provides for some complexity. It's not about 'working', it's about recognition of the baby's intense need for the mother's presence and how the mother organises her life to honour that need, and the effect that separation has on mothering through breastfeeding.
Usually, there is a detailed pre-application dialogue between a Leader and the candidate before a formal application goes in. Anyone who feels she meets the criteria, made a formal application and has had it turned down, can appeal. If it was a personal rejection by a local Leader, the candidate can write to the LLL organisation in her country or state. It's not possible for individual cases to be discussed in public forums.
I'm not writing as a rep for LLL here, just filling you all in on the procedures, in case that helps.
Actually, there is at least one case of a woman who is not a mother who was granted honorary leader status by her LAD.
Anonymous, please, Tell us more! I've never heard of this. 'Leader' is not a status, it's a job. Usually counted as being 10 hours a week, voluntary. There are also peer counsellors, of course - LLL pioneered the peer counsellor movement, which has now been taken up by WIC in the US, the NHS in the UK, and many other organisations. The Founders set up the LLLI peer counsellor programme in the 1980s, because they noticed LLL was not reaching as many populations as they wanted. It's going at varying rates in different countries at the moment, with the LLL country organisations running it rather than LLLI. Mostly the requirement for being a peer counsellor is also to be a mother - but the prerequisites are different from those for applying for LLL leadership.
It is no longer the case that LLL denies leadership to women who work full time out of the home - nor has it been since the late 90s, I believe. I myself work full time, and have since long before I became a mother, and I have been a LLL Leader since 2008 in the US (where I was initially accredited), in Lesotho, and in Peru.
Claims that LLL does not accredit working mothers as leaders are outdated.
My response to "Susan, I would like to see some evidence to support this claim, regarding LLL: the real problem is that moms who are employed aren’t volunteering probably because they don’t have the time or the interest to help others for free." -- it was not my intention to marginalize working moms -- the criticism in the original post by Annie that we were responding to was how can a non-working mother help support a working mother? My point is that mothers who are working and breastfeeding most likely will not have the time to or the inclination to become Leaders, because they are understandably overwhelmed at that period in their lives.
I appreciate 'Becca that you were a Girl Scout Leader (that's a huge responsibility -so thank you for helping our girls!) but you were not a LLL Leader were you? Usually, once moms stop breastfeeding they just move on with their lives and move into the next chapter. Most likely you had a daughter and were leading a group because you wanted to create a wonderful environment for her and other girls. As mothers we all volunteer for different things for our kids both in activities and in school. This goes on for years -- so yes, you have a point that even working moms volunteer (it comes with the mom job description.)
Being a LLL Leader is different. It means staying in the birthing and breastfeeding community as a volunteer and supporting others even when your kids move on and your family's totally changed from that infancy and toddler period. What made you stop being a Girl Scout Leader? Did your child move on in age or interest? Or was it not working for you anymore? And my questions are in no way an attack (I'm writing quickly here as I have to get to some other things) but to get you to think about why you volunteered for what you did and to realize that volunteering for LLL is a very specialized commitment that many women simply do not want to take on or are unable to just due to logistics. I am not slamming working mothers (all of us Leaders work at least part-time in my current group anyway and I support a lot of moms who have to go back to their jobs), I was just trying to point out (in a not very eloquent way, sorry!) that it's probably really, really hard for mothers of babies/toddlers who are working full-time to become Leaders not because LLL doesn't want them to (because in fact LLL does let working moms become Leaders) but because time constraints and the demands of their families in addition to their jobs make it very difficult if not next to impossible.
I love what you wrote about feminine power. Exactly what I was thinking but couldn't write as well.
Eve, I am really sorry you experienced this! I would have loved to have had you in my group. It would have been a godsend because you would have so much to offer to our moms. I bet this had more to do with the location of where you live; different areas are run a little differently and may interpret things differently. If you were able to meet the requirements for Leadership (like nursing your baby for at least a year) then you should have been given the chance to pursue it. This issue of separation of mother and baby is a tricky one for LLL Leaders. We had the author of "Mothering in Combat Boots" (I hope that's the title) come and speak at our LLL Conference two years ago. I know that as Leaders we are really working hard find ways to support and understand the needs of mothers who go back to work. Sorry again for your bad experience!
Yes, and you can probably also apply and work with a different area, too.
I just wrote to LLLI because I believe they are preparing a statement to address this on the larger level. Where I am (SF Bay Area, CA) the needs of LGBTQ families cannot be waved off as something that happens "other places" and denying the application request of a transgendered man in Canada will in fact affect whether or not families where I live will look to LLL for help and possibly even affect if they will as for breastfeeding help from peer counselors, period. Organizational decisions are not made in a vacuum and can directly impact the efficacy of LLL leaders where I live.
My point isn't about what Trevor feels or knows (I haven't read his blog, but he sounds pretty amazing) -- my point is about the other mothers and where they are at as new mothers and what they are prepared to experience at a meeting.
Please see my response to 'Becca about working moms and volunteering for more info. All I can share with you is that as an LLL Leader I have many, many moms who work and come to my meetings, but just simply are not able to do any more than that. And, really that is enough. I totally understand. It is overwhelming to work a job and care for your baby and family. It is not a criticism of mothers with jobs. Of course, working and living is much more difficult here in L.A. so that also makes it more unlikely that a working mom would be able to also volunteer her time to help breastfeeding mothers. I can only speak here from personal experience and from helping and observing what the mothers where I live experience. After working with moms with LLL for over well over 10 years I think I have a pretty clear view of which moms are able to help out and become Leaders and of those for whom it is just barely doable to make to a meeting for much needed support.
The statement is here: http://t.co/qJSzQXI0 (posted to their Facebook and Twitter feeds as well). TopHat, I agree with you whole-heartedly - this is not just an issue for LLL in Winnipeg or in Canada. It does seems that the two Boards now recognize that this decision will have consequences well beyond the admissibility of one individual's application.
In fairness, Susan, I am a Leader and have been for 5 years. I have been (at various times) a mother who: stays home, owns a business, works a full-time corporate job with travel, works part-time and even a part-time student.
I think we do a disservice when we minimize mothers stated experience of feeling unwelcome or marginalized because they are working outside the home. This is not an experience that is isolated to one Leader or one area and mothers report it as happening today, not in some other bygone era. While the stated policy of the organization does not preclude working mothers from finding support and becoming Leaders, it remains true that many women do not feel welcome or find obstacles. There are subtle and not-so-subtle social cues in many groups that make clear that working mothers are not really welcome. Then, there are systemic barriers - most enrichment meetings, chapter meetings and even interested mother meetings take place in the day time hours (even where many regular series groups meet at night). We have been working on this in our area, but not without resistance to the changes.
Telling mothers that they are mistaken is not helpful nor does it help LLL to bridge the gap between what we say we want to be and what we sometimes are. Working mothers absolutely do have the time and energy to devote to LLL Leadership if they want to - if they chose not to, it's often LLL's fault.
Susan, I think your experience may be particular to the LA area, as you said. Where I live now, we have 5 LLL Leaders, and 3 of us work full time.
Liz, that's great! That creates a great balance for your area. L.A. is a very tough city.
Michelle, I appreciate what you write. I am not trying to tell anyone they are wrong nor minimize their experiences -- I am trying to clarify what I experience and see. And some the inherent limitations that might lead to a lack of certain types of Leaders. And I do think it is a fact where I live (let me emphasize that part) that many mothers who work full-time while they have babies cannot add Leadership to their plate. But, to be fair, I think a lot of SAHM's feel that way, too. When we have young children every aspect of life can be overwhelming at times.
I do not mean to offend anyone in anyway (so please forgive me if I wrote in a way that is at all offensive.) And I always feel bad when I read or hear about women that did not receive the support they need and deserve from a Leader or group, because truly we are supposed to supportive and be unbiased -- that at least has been my training. So that is always disheartening to hear.
I agree that when meetings take place can be a challenge, but I think some of that has to do with the fact that we have families who have activities on the weekends so sometimes it can be difficult to have a general weekend meeting and when there have been weekend groups for other support groups that are non-LLL for working mothers (that friends have led), the attendance is really low. But, I agree that is a good point. In our area, enrichment meetings for Leaders are on the weekends.
And, now that I re-read what I wrote, I can see how when I wrote "probably because they don’t have the time or the interest to help others for free" that I worded that poorly. I meant they may not be able to spend that time without pay, may not personally have the interest or the logistics of time make it impossible. That's my fault for not being careful enough with what I wrote. So sorry! Please accept my sincerest apologies -- the way that was worded didn't come right and does sound offensive : ( I didn't even think anyone would really read my post, so just goes to show...
I've seen that from LLLC. I figured LLLI would have something to say as well.
The second page is LLLI's statement.
I appreciate ‘Becca that you were a Girl Scout Leader [...] Most likely you had a daughter and were leading a group because you wanted to create a wonderful environment for her and other girls.
No, please go back and read what I wrote. It is another common assumption that all Girl Scout leaders are mothers of girls in their troops, but it simply isn't true. I don't have a daughter, and my child wasn't old enough for Scouts at the time I was leading. I stopped being a Girl Scout leader because the assistant leader I had in my final year (who WAS the mother of a troop member) was so unwilling to be helpful or reliable and then quit in the middle of cookie sale season, while the leader of a troop with younger sisters of my troop (who had a daughter in my troop as well) had attacked me personally and been talking about me behind my back for two years; I just couldn't take the gossip and lack of teamwork anymore. If not for those problems with the ADULTS, I would gladly have continued working with generations of girls. I may go back to it someday.
You are correct that I have never been a LLL Leader. That isn't something I decided to do. I doubt that it is more difficult than being a Girl Scout leader, but it is different. My mother was an LLL Leader who continued for about 6 years after her youngest child was weaned, so I do understand the commitment. As for logistics, if a local LLL requires Leaders to be available during business hours then I can see how that would be a problem for many employed mothers, but (just as with Girl Scouts) it is possible to have evening or weekend meetings that can be attended, as well as led, by people who are busy during business hours.
H Jules,
Worldwide, LLL groups will be disbanded/discontinued if there is no leader to lead them. This might happen if a LLL leader (who is a volunteer) moves or "retires", leaves LLL to form her own group (or in the USA to join BF USA), or other.
If you are US-based, google Breastfeeding USA or BabyCafe (often run by IBCLCs) and your state, you'll likely find similar support groups to attend.
"I doubt that it is more difficult than being a Girl Scout leader, but it is different. ... if a local LLL requires Leaders to be available during business hours then I can see how that would be a problem for many employed mothers, but (just as with Girl Scouts) it is possible to have evening or weekend meetings that can be attended, as well as led, by people who are busy during business hours."
It is not easy to become an LLL Leader. LLL Leader Applicants first have to meet and live the philosophy, attend a minimum number of Series Meetings, read LLL's publications, and also be recommended. Then they work through an accreditation process where they go over their own personal history, go over the basics (and more) about human lactation, mother-to-mother support and even attend workshops in communication skills (if these exist in their language otherwise there is additional reading). They also do role-playing (mock phone calls, mock meetings).
Once the process if finished, a Leader signs to say she will dedicate a minimum of TWO years to LLL which means not only lead monthly Series Meetings, but answer inquiries by phone (and sometimes email) from her home WHENEVER a mother calls (often business hours as mothers are at home with their babies at this time), pursue continuing education in breastfeeding to stay up-to-date with current research, participate in Leaders weekends, etc. etc. And the mothers do this all VOLUNTARILY and sometimes alone while also trying to put "family first" (a LLL tenet). It's only in larger metropolitan cities where there are co-leaders to turn to for back up.
Full FAQ at http://www.llli.org/lad/talll/faq.html
'Becca, you're correct -- my reading abilities are apparently lax -- either I need glasses or I should only write when I am not being constantly interrupted! You sound like an extraordinary person -- I am sorry that you a negative ending to your Girl Scout responsibilities. It's amazing how difficult it can be for grown-ups to get along despite all our admonishments to our children to do so.
Please take all that I wrote in the spirit of responding to Annie's original post and the criticism of why there are not enough Leaders who have experience with working, pumping and breastfeeding in LLL. I was never disparaging mothers who work. I was simply trying to explain why that criticism of LLL's lack might be true. Cheers!
The one LLL meeting that I attended where DS was born, was an okay experience. They did provide me with valuable information about challenges I might face when I returned to work.
Where I live now, most LLL meetings are held during the day. A few try to groups meet during lunchtime, to help meet the needs of working moms. But given that I spent my lunch hour pumping, I really could have used an evening meeting.
My aunt was unable to find the support she needed at LLL (my cousin was biting - her Leader advised that "mothers must suffer for their children"). She recommended a different organization that I don't see online, something like the Nursing Mother's Council.
There are many male OB/GYN's. I don't tend to use them regularly, but they exist, and can do women a lot of good.
I can see where women SHOULD have the choice to not work with a male LLL leader.
I can see where some women (particularly survivors) might feel uncomfortable working with a male LLL leader, OB/GYN, or Lactation Consultant.
But neither do I see anything saying that men couldn't do those jobs, especially Trans men who are facing many of the same issues.
To those who are still following along, Trevor is encouraging people to write to LLL and share their thoughts. He has a sample letter on his blog: http://www.milkjunkies.net/2012/08/lll-to-revisit-policies-write-letters.html
I'm going to sound like a horrible fence sitter on this - I think that LLL was obviously discriminatory, but I'm not sure that it was wrong. Discrimination is a loaded word, but the fact of the matter is that this case was discrimination. That does not, however, mean that it was necessarily wrong.
I think that there's a lot of benefit to the discriminatory nature of the meetings. Having only women present makes it much more comfortable to nurse in a room full of people (specifically a room full of people that isn't church). But one thing that LLL doesn't seem to get is that they really aren't there for every nursing mother. I can only speak for one of my local groups (when I went to the other I spent the entire meeting closeted with a leader because of severe problems), but the leaders aren't as good at being non-judgemental as they think they are. In fact, given how they react to certain questions, I would not have been comfortable asking for help if I'd needed to supplement with formula, or chosen to use formula instead of expressed milk when I went out.
The fact that LLL promotes itself as offering help in other parenting areas is a bit of a red flag to me. It ranges from difficult to impossible to be able to offer general parenting advice and still be open to all. I can just imagine the response if you went and asked for advice on how to spoon-feed a baby (which is even related to one of the topics they cover). When I asked for advice on when I could try reintroducing milk into my diet (my daughter reacted as a newborn if I ate milk), I was given "oh, it's not that hard to go without milk", rather than "we don't know when it's safest". a) I will willingly give up my cheese, my Timmies, etc for as long as my daughter needs, but I would like to get them back ASAP b) trying to find the best time to introduce milk to avoid a milk allergy is a good idea. Even if I decided that milk was totally unnecessary in our diet, so I didn't care, trying to avoid an allergy is a good idea. What if, as an adult, she wants to be able to buy doughnuts occasionally?
I am glad that LLL exists, they do good work educating healthcare professionals, and their hotline is amazing. If there was danger of the group folding I'd go, but I'm not going to go to a group that clearly isn't for me. I see nothing wrong with putting my daughter's crib on the other side of the room from our bed. I'm not about to nurse her before offering solids. More importantly, the people I know who are really gung-ho about LLL are ones who don't have other support. LLL in my area is best for women who have mothers and/or mothers-in-law who bottle fed, and are pushing to just give formula already. It's great for women whose friends all thing that nursing past 1 year is odd, and need people to socialize with without hiding that they're nursing. But for the average woman? It doesn't offer a lot. My midwife helped me with latching, and sent me to the lactation consultant when that didn't work (I asked for help at LLL, but there wasn't much I hadn't been told, and they weren't entirely happy with the advice that the lactation consultant gave me which fixed the problem - feed less often). When I did have a problem I called the hotline, because waiting 2 weeks for the meeting would have been a bad idea.
I forgot to mention one of my points - I think that Trevor would be helpful for providing breastfeeding support, both because he is a breastfeeding parent, and specifically for queer parents. But I think that it would be most appropriate to the mission, as I understand it, of LLL if he was not a leader in the only group in an area. Make a group that allows dads, male friends, grandfathers, etc to go to the regular meetings. You can reach more people that way in general. But keep the all-women environment for those are just on the brink, maybe scared of having to nurse in public, so that they can reach out to them too.
A LLL leader must have exclusively breastfed for one year.