Age three: defiance with a smirk
Tuesday, May 4, 2010 People warn you about the terrible twos. I tell them two is nothing...wait until you get to three. Maybe it is a case of each child being different or maybe it is a result of how we parent our children. But for me, at age two, a diaper, a breast, a baby carrier, redirection, toys, snacks and cuddles still resolved most problems. Don't get me wrong, two year olds are selfish. But their selfish needs are fairly easy to meet in my experience.
Then comes three.
Both of my kids at three, it seems, reached the age of defiance with a smirk. Not only are they completely selfish, but they also seem to take joy in preventing others from meeting their needs and have little sense of potential danger or discomfort for themselves. Refusing to go the bathroom before we leave the house and taking joy in the fact that her brother and I are frustrated that we can't leave the house until she changes her mind (even though she also wants to go where we want to go). Having the ability to open closed doors to return to the scene of a previous crime and attempt a destructive and dangerous feat once again (e.g. swinging from the curtains in a borrowed apartment). Running in front of your feet with begs to be carried one moment (and getting tripped over in the process) and running off wild in the wrong direction or pausing to pick up dirty cigarette butts the next. Refusing to leave a playground or store when her brother has to go to the bathroom. Throwing toys or books across the room when they don't do what she wants them to do. Asking for a specific food and then refusing to eat any of it. I could go on.
There are several battles taking place on this battlefield:
- Her battle to assert her independence: She wants to make her own decisions about her body, about her food intake, about her clothing, about her activities.
- My battle to teach her empathy: I want her to assert herself, but also understand the impact that has on others. I want her to think about others feelings, needs, physical limitations and personal space.
- Her battle to have mommy all the time: I'm usually a work out of home mom and now I'm here all the time. She's making up for lost time by wanting mommy all of the time. Whether she wants to cuddle, to play with me, or to have me do something for her, she wants me in some capacity all of the time.
- My battle to divide my time and get things done: She doesn't care if I need to shower, make lunch, do laundry, help her brother with something, etc. She wants mommy. I want to do things with/for her and with/for her brother and myself. I want a few minutes here and there where I don't have a three year old crawling on me or demanding something from me.
- Her battle to test her limits: She wants to throw things, climb on things, do somersaults, balance, and more. We do those things at the park on a daily basis, but she wants to do it at home too in a rented apartment full of things that are not our own and that are not meant for climbing or throwing.
- My battle to stay away from the hospital: Kids hurt themselves. That's normal. Emma has legs full of bruises to prove it. But I'd really like to avoid any major hospital visits, especially ones that also involve the destruction of the place we're living in.
Some of the time she is just impatient. Some of the time she is asserting herself. Some of the time she is purposely making things difficult or purposely doing things she knows are destructive or hurtful and doing so with a smirk.
I've read a lot about gentle discipline. I have a general idea of the tools and techniques that I think are appropriate. When I'm confronted with discipline situations dispersed over the course of a day, generally listening, teaching, modeling, and giving choices works quite well. I believe in giving children the good sense to act appropriately in the real world, rather than handing down arbitrary punishments like spankings and time outs that attempt to force compliance but teach nothing. But when one situation piles on top of another constantly over the course of the day with little to no downtime from one to the next, I'm not as patient as I would like to be. My lack of patience and my bad discipline choices (citing consequences I wish I hadn't, offering rewards, yelling) make things worse, not better.
A lot of people say "you're the parent - you need to lay down the law." To borrow from a really old tweet from my friend Arwyn from Raising My Boychick, being the parent doesn't mean that I need to forcibly put my child into a car seat when I decide it is time to go somewhere. Being the parent means that I do not move the vehicle until she is buckled into her car seat. It is a fine line sometimes and a wide gap other times between being the responsible parent and being disrespectful towards her. I believe that I am responsible for her well-being and safety, but it doesn't mean that I have the right to trample on all of her personal desires and feelings. I believe that she needs to learn how to treat others with respect and consider their feelings, but I don't think that disrespecting her and dismissing her feelings is the way to do that.
I believe that these battles are a phase, based partly on her age (developmental stuff) and partly on our move to Berlin. It is a phase we will come through. We did with her brother, with whom I still have battles sometimes but who generally has some concept of logic and of other people's needs now. He is great with his sister and extremely patient with her, but I also notice the toll that her issues have on him some days. He gets less time with me than he deserves. He has to put up with being kicked and slapped by his sister and accept that he can't kick or slap her back. He has to be patient when we are trying to leave the house for a fun activity and she refuses to get ready. He is great at trying to make her happy, trying to reason with her, trying to help and entertain her. But his patience is limited too.
I want to discover new levels of patience or magic that were previously uncovered. I want to find things to say that will help her to understand. I want to enjoy every, or at least most, moments that we have together.
Is she four yet?
Reader Comments (87)
i have 3 grandkids 3 1/2 and under, the oldest, a boy is usually the most expressive, inquisitive, fun to be with child. he can also be obstinate, loud and obnoxious, but i figure that just goes with the territory. every now and then he will do something out of the ordinary and usually it is something mean or defiant. when his mother or i try to correct, or discipline him he refuses to talk or look us in the eye, apologize or even acknowledge our presence until after a few minutes and he seems to come out of this spell. the most recent episode was when a friend needed me to go to the airport with her to pick up an elderly woman who she helps out, i decided to bring the 3 yr. along hoping he could see some planes arriving and taking off, all was fine and he seemed intrigued by size of the airport. we had time to kill and went into a cafe and ordered some iceteas and juice and ff's to share. he kept saying "i want juice, i want juice nana, i want juice" i kept reassuring him that it was on the way, i had a juice box in his backpack but that was for the ride home, i offered it to him anyway, but then his juice arrived. my friend asked if he wanted ketchup on his ff, he said no, so she said she would just put some in the corner for herself. it seemed like a veil slipped over his face, suddenly he got up and left the table, we thought he was looking for an extra plate or napkins. we both get up and go after him, he was running full force down the terminal. we were like "wth" is he doing? so of course we follow him and the closer we get to him the faster he runs away, finally we catch up to him and i try to talk to him and find out what is going on and am met with the reaction i described above. finally after about 5 or 6 minutes i coax him back to the table where he is fine for a minute and then takes off again. this time i am getting a little a little overwhelmed, i try the stern grandma face and take him firmly by the shoulders and tell him that we are going back to our seats and he is going to sit there and be a good boy, that doesn't go over well and i can tell if i try to continue that he is going to go into a fullblown fit and start really freaking out. so i called his mother and she said to tell him that i am going to call his father (who doesn't live with him). that seemed to work but i still don't understand what prompted this behavior and know that that threat is not going to work in the long run. when he acts like this i begin to wonder if there is something wrong with him, it just doesn't seem normal to just change so quickly over something so trivial, and then the not making eye contact is so defiant for such a young age, or is it? any suggestions or similar experiences?
the race ideal is a good one, i'll try it!
[...] to two children who have no friends nearby and almost no activities that they participate in, I know how hard it can be sometimes. I know that I was often stressed. I know that I did not always have a smile [...]
I don't know about the four. You just described my 5yr old and he's been like this since 3. :/
Lori Pietro with teach through love has a free parenting seminar you might enjoy. She just posted it on facebook. I'm looking at her upcoming parenting course as well.
But I'm glad you posted and are open about your experiences, its great to know I'm not alone. And that perhaps I'M not all at fault for DS's behavior, although I know I'm partly to blame, but perhaps there is just something I am missing. I think a huge part is not having family to be a part of, grandparents and cousins and sleepovers. Free roam out in the woods/farm to be free and explore and free their minds. Getting a farm is my main goal right now. I know as a child being with horses and out in the quiet, blissful nature really calmed my soul ESP with all the chaos I was surrounded with back at home.
[...] all use social media to vent. Whether it is a full blog post, or a quick status update, it can be a way to let off steam. We need that outlet and people in [...]
I know this is a year-old comment, but I had to respond. I'm currently in the midst of The Threes with a very passionate and persistent kid. I have yet to figure out how to calm him down and he gets locked in his room at least once a day.
I have tried asking what he needs to calm down, I have tried giving him options, he knows he can hit the couch with a pool noodle, kick his bed, bang a drum, etc. I've tried offering him the breast (even though it feels, frankly, dangerous in the midst of a passionate tantrum), I've tried snuggling him in almost a forced way, I've tried sitting and taking deep breaths in front of him hoping he will follow suit. I have locked him screaming and flailing and beating his locked door for close to two hours with only a short period of calm in the middle - all while knowing he needed to sleep and at a complete loss as to how to get him there, or knowing if I just give in to his demand he will stop screaming...but then he'll have a new demand and on we'll go.
I have re-framed my thinking and used collaborative language.
This has been soul-crushing, the last few months. My husband and I are at the point of simply surviving it and trying to keep everybody's self-respect intact and not doing anything we regret. It seems it just has to pass. I might honestly require some medication until passes, because I feel so out of control of my life, so unappreciated, and so exhausted to my core.
And, yes, I am also very much focused on self-care and have a husband and friends who give me breaks. Pretty much all of our (very limited) extra money is going toward things like Parents Day/Night Out. My husband is taking time from work to give me breaks. I even used some gift money for a massage. I exercise regularly.
I'm finding three humbling, exhausting, and often painful.
And here I thought that when I get pass the terrible, I'm free. But after reading your article, I guess not. Now i have to find ways to get pass the terrible threes.
[...] answers and I FEEL YOUR PAIN. Also, IT GETS BETTER. It does, really. The girl I wrote about in Age three: defiance with a smirk, is now 4 and a half and much, much more pleasant. She’s still sassy, but the fun side of [...]
Why didn't anybody point me to this article when Sonja turned 3? She's still 3...and has an older brother who goes through EXACTLY the same thing you say.
Your daughter was exactly what my Sonja is and will be for a while...
* sigh *
Surprisingly I'm not a lush, or dead and buried (yet).
[...] kids, however, still have some learning to do. I ask them to do something and they ignore me, defy me, or outright mock the request. Don’t they realize that it would be easier to live with me if [...]
[...] I know people who fear the wrath of toddlers, and I understand all too well the parents who say it doesn’t get any worse than age three. We’re past that now. We’ve survived those stages, with all of the good and the bad. [...]
[...] difference at all, or when things seem to get even worse, you are left feeling defeated. I know, because I’ve been there too. Many times. But I’ve realized, as I wrote in Ready to Snap, that when I am there, I [...]
Brea- I am almost in tears reading your post, which was almost a year ago. I hope things have improved for you. Last night my 3 year-old had me sobbing because I just felt so worn down from the constant defiance. Choices, counting, time-outs- nothing works with him sometimes. Luckily I have an angelic 2 year-old who gave me kisses and hugs to "make Mommy feel better." It does help to know that others are in the same boat. I'm praying that it's just a (long) stage and will eventually pass!
::shudder::
Man. Reading that brings me right back there! So the good news is that it DID pass. My older son turns 4 in about 3 weeks, and so far 4 is looking almost comically moody, but he is also back to being my buddy and I look forward to spending time one-on-one with him. He is funny, creative, and simply joyful and a pleasure to be around.
He will finally willingly go sit in his room if he needs to take a moment to calm down (or if I really need him to back off and give me space). For a stretch there, I was daily strapping him into his car seat so I could walk away without hearing the BOOM BOOM BOOM of him against his door.
So yes, it is SO MUCH BETTER.
I do not look forward to doing three again. ::shudder::
That's such good news! I look forward to that time too!
My daughter (38 months) is working hard at this right now. She'll mention something she likes, and then list others who do or don't also like it. "I like juice. But not mom. But not dad. But not Boo (the dog)." It's hilarious.
Count the days until four... some how three your old girls can push ALL the buttons!!! But by four they are lovely and livable again!!!
our daughter just turned 3 this spring, but her intermittent defiance really took off closet to 3. Her mood "flare-ups" happen at odd and unpredictable times, notably in the mid-afternoon and after dinner. Tooth-brush time is a task my husband and I dread. Rarely does Nena NOT make a big production out of it. She knows how (and relatively why) to brush her teeth but she'll resist, say NO! and shake her head in defiance. It's hard as parents to know what lines to draw, what is enough, too much or too little in the way of discipline and timing. We are trying to teach Nena that when we say "No" we mean "No" and she is not to be defiant - It is because if there is an issue of safety (for ex. her in a parking lot or near a street) and we shout "No" or "Stop" she needs to learn to listen. It's not about getting our way, instilling fear in her or trying to control her, we are trying to teach her to listen and respect boundaries. We respect her boundaries, like when she is watching a show she likes or playing independently; but when I am on the phone talking or talking in-person with my husband, Nena will start whining, yelling until she is gets the attention and takes it away from the conversation that is not hers. I know it's temporary, but any parent would be afraid to let their 3-year-old rule the roost, as in getting their own way when they yell, throw a fit, etc. Oh my
I've just googled "defiant three year old" and found this post. Thanks for a great post, and thanks also to everyone who posted comments too. I feel assured that everyone goes through the same things.
As the post was written two years ago, how is it with a five year old now?
Five is much better! It is easier to reason with her now.
The biggest change that I found with my son, who is now eight, was reading. Once he could read he became much more independent.
We're almost there now with the five year old.
[...] by phdinparenting on September 6, 2012 · 0 comments Please welcome Jodi (@KarmicEvolution) back to the blog with a post about the not-so-great days of parenting. This is something every parent feels sometimes, I think. Especially when they have a three year old. [...]
I found this article while googling "3 year old defiance" and am so comforted by reading it. My 3.5 year old son has been going through this "phase" for about 5 months now and I have being doubting my parenting all along. I have tried time-outs, time-ins, stickers and so many other ways but nothing has helped. It's the intermittent good moments that keep me going but I am eager to see the end of this.
Thanks for writing your experience so honestly, its very reassuring to read of others in the same boat.
I can't believe it--I was trolling the web looking for advice on handling three yr old tantrums, because we have just moved to Berlin, and have stumbled upon your post here with what sounds like the same little conundrum in the same city. I am sure some of it is age-appropriate defiance, and some just a reaction to a big move, but they sure are hard to handle!
I just came across this looking through your archives, and I feel like I could have written it. Well, that is to say, you have put all my thoughts and feelings down in a much better way than I ever could have. You have described my experience on many days lately!
My favorite part is this: "I believe that she needs to learn how to treat others with respect and consider their feelings, but I don’t think that disrespecting her and dismissing her feelings is the way to do that." I feel like this sums up the biggest challenge of parenting a three-year-old and the one that really calls on us to be our highest selves. Just framing it this way helps me rise to the challenge and remember that though his actions can be incredibly frustrating to me, it is my job to model the kind of behavior I want to teach him. There are no short-cuts.
To that end, I've been reading "Your Three Year Old: Friend or Enemy" which is awesome for so many reasons. It reminds me that his behavior is totally normal and developmentally appropriate/expected and also allows me to laugh at the fact that the best advice these child development experts could find is for me to find a babysitter as much as possible! (I guess dad is supposed to be out earning boat-loads of money - I should remind him of that ASAP).
So I guess we're all muddling through this on our own, but also together - great comments on this post, and they all gave me much food for thought and made me feel better. Thank you for starting this very valuable discussion!
I am reading this, yes I know it is an old post, and am in tears. Brea that is how I feel every day. The defiance is so hard and I am worn down. The good thing about your post and the ones above it.....is it does pass and I am not the only parent that has dealt with this.
Like others above, I found this by searching for help with "3 year old defiance" and it is by far the best of the three pieces I've read. The post and replies are so affirming that my 3.5 yo son's behavior and my reactions--productive and not so productive--are totally normal. I started my search on the verge of tears (after a perfectly fine bedtime, but at the end of an up-and-down evening with my precious but irritatingly moody kiddo) and I now have a smile on my face and I'm ready to move onto other things--mommy's Facebook and Pinterest time!--with my precious few moments to myself this evening. Thank you all for your honesty, good advice, and reassurance that this, too, shall pass!
My husband sent me the link to this article as we've been struggling with our little girl's defiance and general attitude of dismissal. Thank you for your honest writing. (The words "battle" and others are very appropriate in our household. While I appreciate what some commenters were saying, your wording goes a long way to reminding me that we're (parents) not alone in these trying circumstances. That in and of itself is helpful to me!) I agree with one commenter who said it's like her daughter just went deaf/stopped listening to anything she said. I had a 15 year career as a nanny and let me tell you, none of that experience prepared me for this past year with my child!! (Of course, I have been shocked to discover how different it is to parent my own child v. parenting other people's children in general!) Thanks again for sharing your honest perspective and for you and those who commented leaving me with a sense of hope that it is "just a phase" and will go away.
Having just googled Defiant Three Year Old and found this; *THANK YOU*. I am just coming off a monster tantrum from my daughter this evening that has left both she and I in tears. I had to call my husband to come back early to deal with her as I just reached the end of my tether - unfortunately he, as ever, walked in and had no sympathy "why are you crying?". I am not sure what's more dispiriting: having a completely defiant three year old or a husband who doesn't get it at all sometimes. If he'd just experienced what Ive just experienced I suspect he might understand a bit more. Sigh.
A great post which I agree with. However, my two year old exhibits all of these traits. It must be because she's watching her two older sisters. I laughed when I read your comment about the hospital. To me, a healthy kid is a kid with bruises in the proper places. My kids skate and they manage to accumulate some whoppers!
Shannon @ www.mamamusing.ca
I am no expert, but having observed friends, family and my 2 boys, that the difficult age is when they have a major change in their life. My mother always said children hate change. We spent 5 months in France when I was 11 and my little sister was 2 1/2 and boy did she make us all suffer for it. I decided 4 was the worst age, as my first boy got difficult when his little bro was about 6 months old, and I think the reputation of the terrible twos is due to so many parents having a second child around then.
Your daughter is probably expressing something to do with your move to Berlin.
I read this morning about the terrible conditions of pregnant women and children on Christmas island in Australia (where they detain asylum seekers), it just doesn't bear thinking about how hard it must be too parent when they are taking away children's hearing aid, glasses and normal medical care! :(
I googled defiant 3 year old and found this article. When I give choices, my daughter will often select something that is not a choice. She will also dissolve into a tantrum if something immediately doesn't go her way. This happens several times a day. I also find instead of just asking for something, she will whine for it. She can also be very clingy. It is very trying. Sadly, I find that a threat of a punishment is the only way to get her to obey sometimes. I believe in respecting her interests, but not at the cost of sacrificing everybody else's interests for hers. I try to pick my 'battles' and let her have her way with small, harmless things, such as choosing her clothes. However, it is unfair to let other family members suffer the consequences if a stubborn child will refuse to get in the car and buckle their seatbelts. I imagine a child gets a power kick of holding everyone up. Sometimes they have to learn that Mommy or Daddy is boss and they have to do some things whether they want to or not. My daughter has a sister who just turned a year and is often pushing her, yelling at her, or taking toys. I ask my 3 year old if she would like that if somebody did that to her and she says 'no', but continues to do that to her sisters. We just started 3 so we have a long way to go! We also moved to a new area with no family support. I think I am going to enroll my 3 year old in preschool because we both need some time away from each other!
I see this article was written a while ago, I wonder how the child is doing now. My sympathies to everybody else going through this.
I googled defiant 3 year old and found this article. When I give choices, my daughter will often select something that is not a choice. She will also dissolve into a tantrum if something immediately doesn't go her way. This happens several times a day. I also find instead of just asking for something, she will whine for it. She can also be very clingy. It is very trying. Sadly, I find that a threat of a punishment is the only way to get her to obey sometimes. I believe in respecting her interests, but not at the cost of sacrificing everybody else's interests for hers. I try to pick my 'battles' and let her have her way with small, harmless things, such as choosing her clothes. However, it is unfair to let other family members suffer the consequences if a stubborn child will refuse to get in the car and buckle their seatbelts. I imagine a child gets a power kick of holding everyone up. Sometimes they have to learn that Mommy or Daddy is boss and they have to do some things whether they want to or not. My daughter has a sister who just turned a year and is often pushing her, yelling at her, or taking toys. I ask my 3 year old if she would like that if somebody did that to her and she says 'no', but continues to do that to her sisters. We just started 3 so we have a long way to go! We also moved to a new area with no family support. I think I am going to enroll my 3 year old in preschool because we both need some time away from each other!
I see this article was written a while ago, I wonder how the child is doing now. My sympathies to everybody else going through this.
In my generation we did not have these problems! Children were taught respect from day one. They were a joy for the most part. I now have a 3 yr old grandson who I adore but do not like. I am lost in sadness over this. How do I cope knowing kids today are so different?
I completely agree with Megan. In theory some of the ideas of parenting I read about sound divine, but in a real life scenario I don't see how they are possible. With a family of 6, I can't always let the mood of a 3 year old dictate our schedule. If we have to go and putting him in the carseat is the next step, I can't always wait for him to be ready. Life won't cater to him like that either. Once we were leaving the library and my little one was hungry and tired. He was having a fit because he didn't want to leave the library. In trying to respect his opinion - he wanted to stay longer - I had already kept us there 30 minutes past when we were going to leave. We reached a point where we had to leave. I gave a 5 minute warning, but when it was time to go he just broke down. I had to struggle with him in the carseat for 10 minutes. If I had waited, it wouldn't have gotten any better because he would have gotten more tired and more hungry. So it never seems quite as easy in life as in theory. My little one who is 3 now constantly says no to me. When we need to take the big kids to the bus stop and he doesn't want to go, we can't sit down and have a discussion about it. The bus is coming. I have had to drag him kicking and screaming. I'm not sure of a way around that. When he doesn't want to go to bed at night even after a bath, stories, and a 20 min snuggle, he continues to get out of bed, disrupting his brother who is trying to sleep. I can take away every privilege, every toy...he would still say no. I can spank him he would still say no. I can physically carry him to his bed and shut the door and lock it. It sounds cruel, but I would like to know how to parent with patience at that point when it's 2 hours past bedtime and we are still struggling. That is "forcing compliance", but seems to be a necessity. Any other ideas?
My three year old boy has been so incredibly defiant and mischievous lately that I have felt like I have no control of him! I have two older children and I never experienced this with them, so I just feel lost at times and like I'm failing as a mommy with this one! I literally almost broke out into tears at the grocery store yesterday! He was being so NAUGHTY!!!! And he would laugh at me when I would get onto him! I try so so soooo hard not to lose my patience but OMG!!! He is constantly doing something he knows he should not be doing and it also takes so much of me away from my other two children. I feel so bad because I know they aren't getting as much of my attention as they should.
I’m a mother of 5, grandmother to 9. Old school.
I observe a common thread, “who has suffered the most”.
Sharing you victimization of a 3 year old is drama drama drama.
Stop it. Be in charge. You are in charge. Doesn’t make you bad ass whoop ass and mean. Just take control. Be in control because if you aren’t then that means the three year old is in total control... what?
You are the parent, the first word, the last word, non-negotiable.
It takes a tremendous amount of work & discipline, but children need (want) boundaries. Stop allowing a three year old to control you - seriously. Don’t be lazy; be firm, yet fair. I have no advice on how to un-do all of the lenient behavior you’ve permitted to get you into this mess of a snotty unruly kid. Note to others, don’t let the landslide begin.
I realize all of these comments are from 9! Years ago and you are all so well past this phase and probably some of you fondly reminiscing about it but I am so so happy to have found this post. I would love to hear how your children turned out? Do you make it out of three okay? This has been the first blog I’ve found that seems the most relatable to me. And so refresh. Thank you.