Thursday
May072009
Breastfeeding Nazis
Thursday, May 7, 2009 
Day in and day out, I keep hearing and reading the term Breastfeeding Nazi used to describe lactation consultants, La Leche League leaders, breastfeeding advocates and other lactivists. I think it is completely inappropriate.
- First, lactivists have not killed millions of people like the Nazis did. People that advocate for breastfeeding are doing so to give babies the best possible start in life and to save lives. In fact, improved and increased breastfeeding could save millions of lives each year. According to UNICEF:
It has been estimated that improved breastfeeding practices could save some 1.5 million children a year. Yet few of the 129 million babies born each year receive optimal breatsfeeding and some are not breastfed at all. Early cessation of breastfeeding in favour of commercial breastmilk substitutes, needless supplementation, and poorly timed complementary practices are still too common. Professional and commercial influences combine to discourage breastfeeding, as do continued gaps in maternity legislation.
- Second, calling someone that is an enthusiastic advocate of something a Nazi trivializes and minimizes the suffering of the victims of the Holocaust. Even if you feel like you have been a "victim" of extreme lactivism, you cannot in good conscience compare that to the complete and utter horror that the Nazis carried out.
So stop. Please stop. It is not appropriate. Not funny.
Don't believe me? Want to know more? Then read the perspective of Kathy Kuhn, a Jewish lactation consultant. Or the perspective of the child of a Nazi prisoner of war camp.
Reader Comments (182)
T - the trouble with minding our own business is that nothing ever gets changed unless people demand it. The Germans were minding their own business when the Nazis were murdering an entire population. If we minded our own business, there would be no domestic abuse laws. If we minded our own business, children would still be working in factories, and pets would still be allowed to be tortured. Some things just aren't right.
[...] People who feel the need to call breastfeeding supporters names, like Breastfeeding Nazi or Boob Nazi. [...]
As promised, a couple of follow-up posts on the issues that were raised here (and elsewhere):
http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/05/14/the-scientific-benefits-of-breastfeeding/" rel="nofollow">The Scientific Benefits of Breastfeeding
http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/05/14/when-it-is-not-breast/" rel="nofollow">When it is Not Breast
Not to cause trouble, but my first born baby would have died without formula. Read my story - here: http://raisingsmartgirls.wordpress.com/2009/05/10/my-breastfeeding-story-and-this-is-what-nursing-a-toddler-looks-like-while-studying/.
I was in the bioscience field for 12 years. I knew exactly what I wanted to do when I was going to have my baby. I was going to breastfeed. I researched, I took the appropriate breastfeeding classes. But I could not feed my baby enough.
From all the online "support" groups, I got the message loud and clear that giving formula was akin to giving my baby poison. Do you realize how extremely painful it was to do EVERYTHING physically possible to give my baby mother's milk and it still wasn't enough.
Do you know how devastating it is to know you are making so little milk your baby is being uric acid crystals because she's dehydrated and she will die if you don't give her something? And how devastating it is to hear others' basically equate formula to poison? (Not saying anyone here did, but I have heard that comparison on message boards).
I was giving my child substandard nutrition and I knew it. I was so upset to the point of being irrational most of the time because of my daughter not getting enough milk to even pee and I was frighteningly close to PPD because of it. I raged at my husband, I raged at God, I raged at my baby for everything that was SUPPOSED to be natural and EASY and GOOD for my baby that I couldn't do. I gave my baby formula through tears in the early days, often breaking down because my body failed me and my baby. I raged against the forces that deprived me of giving her mother's milk and forced me to give her "poison".
I was nearly convinced my baby was going to a have low IQ, or constantly be sick as a child or grow up to have some horrible disease that could have been prevented had I not given her a drop of formula. I had to get over the idea I was poisoning her and it was hard.
Some people will never understand. I don't wish that on anybody. I had no choice though, and had to work through my breastfeeding grief (yes, GRIEF). I even went on a yahoo message group to help me process the breastfeeding grief I felt. I most likely should have been on medications too, because it was that bad. Had I not had the breastfeeding grief support group, I would have been.
It was only then I realized how many others were out there like me, wanting to breastfeed and couldn't - being sold a bill of goods that it was EASY to breastfeed. For me it was a lie and I felt betrayed.
For me, the choice was "simple" - either feed the baby formula or let her die because of my principles. I had to ignore the "dangers of formula". There was no choice in the matter. I wish formula wasn't full of dubious chemicals, but I had no choice. Zip, nada, none. I even researched milk banks, but those are reserved for preemies.
We also can't forget there is a population of women who can not breastfeed for deep psychological reasons - like those women who have been raped or molested. Often times the psychological trauma they have faced is so deep, and breastfeeding brings out feelings of extreme shame and they can't do it any more so they quit.
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey there were an estimated 248,000 rapes and sexual assaults against victims over the age of 12 in the US in 2001 (and that's been about the same for many years now). I highly doubt that many of them will breastfeed without some great difficulty if they even try.
There are even women who might want to, but are pressured or even forced by their family members out of it. Believe it or not, some women are still oppressed by their spouses or their families and can't do a damn thing about it because the psychological pressure is too great.
It's easy for many to criticize the use of formula without giving one bit of consideration to the circumstances by which a woman comes to use it. I do realize it's substandard. But there are many, many good women out there who have given it their all or who have wanted to but it was not good enough and they suffered psychologically from it. Some women have scars they can not leave behind because they never got it to work. Ever. They live with that breastfeeding grief and they still feel it for years after the fact. I was able to breastfeed my 3rd baby for 3 years, and while that nursing relationship healed many things, I have never forgotten the experiences and guilt I have experienced.
Anytime I re-tell my story, I remember the pain. And then I look at my oldest daughter, and remember that she never had so much as a cold her first 13 months of life, and that she is far advanced in her abilities and she's only in 1st grade, I realize that formula didn't make her sick and it didn't make her stupid. I have given up the worry that formula is going to give her cancer, because you're not going to get out of this world without some terrible disease at some point in your life. It's a fact of life and environmental factors contribute to that, whether you were formula fed or not. Formula is such a SMALL factor of all the environmental exposure to toxins you will get simply from all the "industrial progress" that man has made over the years (just think of the chlorine in our water, the toxins of your the industries in your area, the genetically modified foods that are sneaking into our food supply). I think some perspective is needed here.
I am a HUGE supporter of breastfeeding advocacy. But because of my experiences, sensitivity must be used. I do not judge any woman who uses formula or who never wants to breastfeed, because I know the truth. Breastfeeding, while natural, is NOT easy and even when you have the advice of experts, it does not always go the way you planned it to.
Just remember that compassion is the way to go. I would err on the side of caution and assume there are mothers out there reading your words who are devastated by the inability to breastfeeding and use compassion and sensitivity in defending your position when you advocate breastfeeding.
I'm now off to read what PhD in Parenting had to say.
KC, thank you for your story. So much. You're amazing.
I agree that compassion should be the norm. Posting an angry diatribe condemning other women for decisions made that are no one else's business is the same thing as saying it to their face. How wouldn't it be?
I say save the ball busting for real oppressors and give our sisters a break! I believe we're all doing the best we can.
Thank you for bringing up sexual abuse, KC. The "shut up and try harder" mentality is so hurtful to people who have been victimized. To me, it's akin to telling a rape victim who is pregnant that she should just perservere through the pregnancy whether she likes it or not. Or how about finding out that a woman wants a c-section after a previous traumatic birth and shaming them for a) wanting one and b) doing something "wrong" (should have perservered and pushed harder or shouldn't have gotten that epidural) during their first birth. I've seen comments like this and I'll never understand them. I don't even want to try to understand that mentality anymore.
In comment #101, formula feeders (or maybe formula companies) were loosely compared to Nazis, so the thread just ended according to the aforementioned Godwin's Law. ;) Between the original post and the comments, it all came full circle. Twice.
Jill - I believe that it is my business, because it involves the health and well-being of children. Regardless of how I feel about it, it would be one thing if I was sending out emails to women telling them what horrible mothers they are, but it's entirely another to post my opinion on the subject on my own blog. The answer to being offended at someone's opinion is not to read it.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I do not believe in relative morality. I believe that some things are always right or wrong, regardless of personal circumstances. Everyone thinks differently; it's not bad, it just is. That is why we have our own blogs, after all. So we can each share our own way of thinking.
As to comparing formula companies to the Nazis, I was not. I was illustrating the dangers of looking the other way for fear of offending or being all up in people's business.
KC - I'm very sorry about your situation. I understand the "grief" you're talking about. It was the same grief I felt after I didn't breastfeed my first son, and the same grief I felt over not being able to birth him from my body and instead having the Vaginal Bypass surgery. All those feelings are legitimate and rational. I don't think anyone would or should make you feel bad about what you couldn't control.
Having said that, we as a country must know that the dismal breastfeeding rates are far more a factor of women not having the education, or having some strange unfounded bias against the "dirty" action of it, rather than having some actual physical reason that prevents them from doing it. We already know that, statistically speaking, in the United States, women are simply not choosing breastfeeding because they don't know the benefits, or because they think there's something wrong with it. Of course there are stories like yours, and of course there are victims that just couldn't put themselves through it - but more overwhelmingly, a mother isn't breastfeeding because she just doesn't know any better, or doesn't have the support/information she needs to keep going.
Breastfeeding is NOT easy for any of us. I don't know a mom who has ever said, even when their baby latched on from Minute One, that they never had a single issue with it. It is a totally natural thing that, ironically, doesn't come "natural" to any of us. We've all had terrible struggles, and the people who were committed to helping us succeed were very valuable people in our lives.
If you were really unable to breastfeed, it shouldn't matter what any judgmental ignoramous says about it. You know what you went through, so you should know that you did everything you could, and no one in the world can expect any more than that from you. If they do, then who cares about them? Clearly they have their own issues to deal with. People can only affect you if you let them.
But I have to say, that I am personally grateful for all the people who pushed me a little harder during the times that I felt like I really couldn't do it. I'm really grateful that those people stuck their neck out for me and my baby.
I hope you continue to find peace and healing with your situation, and again, I'm sorry.
[...] nazis and formula is poison style Posted in Uncategorized by MomTFH on May 16, 2009 PhD in Parenting has a hopping post about the term “breastfeeding nazi”. I also have a problem with that term, which I have [...]
@MomsTFH:
"accurate information and sensitivity"
Both very important. Both very lacking. Unfortunately.
[...] Breastfeeding Nazis – “Day in and day out, I keep hearing and reading the term Breastfeeding Nazi used to describe lactation consultants, La Leche League leaders, breastfeeding advocates and other lactivists. I think it is completely inappropriate. [...]
MomTFH - Oh, yeah, I know the SNS all too well. It was often used in vain, as it would make it harder for the baby to latch on, or it would come out of her mouth, spilling my hard earned pumped milk out, or it would take years for her to get anything because it wasn't in the right spot. I used it many times, but very few of those times were very successful. I'd also gotten fed up enough to throw it across the room at times (only when it was filled with formula) after 15 minutes of struggling to get it in her mouth correctly. Then my husband would rescue me and take the baby and give her a bottle while cried in the bedroom.
Of course, the more I stressed about getting it (the SNS) right, the worst things always got, especially when the baby would recoil from my strained efforts to put the plastic tubing back in her mouth if it slipped out or if it wouldn't flow right. I was more nerve-wracked using the SNS on the breast than not.
Thank you everyone for all the warm, encouraging sentiments. I don't personally think I'm amazing, but I knew I was determined to try and make it out as best I could.
If you'd like to "meet" the child with whom I struggled so much with, you can read about her in my post here:
http://raisingsmartgirls.wordpress.com/2009/05/18/meet-m/
Despite our great difficulties in the beginning, she turned out to be an quite an amazing child if I may say so myself. :)
Thank you for this post. As the Director of Breastfeeding and Consumer Relations for Lansinoh Laboratories and as a Certified Lactation Counselor and a La Leche League International-trained breastfeeding peer counselor (and former breastfeeding and pumping mom), I’ve taken plenty of heat for my support of breastfeeding as the normal and ideal choice for mom and baby. I am hopeful that the people who use words like “nazi” to describe the profession that means so much to me and has been important in so many women’s lives will read your words and think before they open their mouths. There are different people in every profession and while there are those who take an extreme and polarizing stance, there are others like myself who promote the extreme importance and try to educate people on the issues and practical techniques while not judging, alienating, or bullying. Name calling is good for nothing in my opinion and takes time away from trying to help the person in need.
Gina Ciagne
Breastfeeding Advisor and Counselor
Lansinoh Laboratories
www.bymomsformoms.net
[...] I am a breastfeeding supporter, a hard-core breastfeeding advocate, a lactivist (but not a “breastfeeding nazi“, please and thank [...]
That word is NEVER appropriate.
I agree that the term "nazi" is hateful and should never be used to describe someone who is passionate about their beliefs. It's up there with racial slurs and the use of the word "retarded" or "retard" as my pet peeves.
Seriously, what kind of moron calls something "retarded" to the Mom of a kid with special needs?
I couldn't breastfeed for a medical reason. Nobody ever cared what that was, they just made sweeping judgments. Now Jake is 13 and I can see that in the end, it didn't really matter. He's happy and healthy.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there's no excuse for being hateful about it.
I agree 100% with your post. There's no excuse for that kind of name-calling. It's offensive and doesn't reflect well on the person saying it.
That said, I can understand the frustration and hurt that a woman feels when she's accosted for not breastfeeding. I desperately wanted to breastfeed my son and was devastated that I was unable to produce enough milk and what little I had dried up inside of three months despite all the measures and help with lactation consultants. For me, as someone who wanted to breastfeed, I am deeply offended when I see blanket criticism directed at mothers who feed their babies formula. There is a very bad tendency among some of these women to judge others without even knowing the whys.
No, not everyone who is a lactivist behaves this way, but the few who do give the entire group a bad reputation. Two wrongs don't make a right, though, so it would be nice if we could come to a place in society as a whole where we can discuss our differences without making personal attacks.
Thank you for your post. I could not agree with you more! You have guts to speak up against people who forgot the past and take things too lightly.
Unfortunately, I noticed that this term "Nazi" is loosely thrown around in the US; perhaps, because the civilian population was not as directly affected by the horrors on WWII. I grew up in a country, where every family lost at least one family member in that terrible war, and during the time when the generation of survivors of that war were still around to tell their stories (now there is not many of them left), so when I was growing up callign someone Nazi or a fascist was considered to be the worst and most hurtful comment to make. This being said, one of my close friends here in the US explained to me that it does not have to mean real "Nazi", but the philosophy behind Nazism, such as torturing someone against their will, so it can be applied to anyone engaging in such behavior. His explanation did not make it better; it only upset me more.
I totally agree that it is disrespectful to people who suffered during Holocaust or WWII because of Nazism/Fascism. When I was a PhD student, we had a class called Journal Club, and the person in charge was jokingly called "Journal Club Nazi". Since my family was affected by holocaust and WWII, every time I heard people giggling about this, I had cold running down my spine.
Especially I think this is totally inappropriate to apply this term to people who advocate breastfeeding. It is the same as calling you parent a name like that if they are telling you what to do. It's disgusting, and it's the worst kind of name to call someone. I am usually for linguistic freedom, and not restricting people's vocabulary, but in this case, we must never forget, and we must hold our tongue our of respect...
@ Not Your Boobs, Not Your Problem: THANK YOU for having the courage to stick up for what can be a very touchy subject.
I've used the term breastfeeding nazi on more than one instance (most commonly to myself and maybe my husband while venting). It was most often being directed towards someone who was on the crazed end of breastfeeding - the type that had no problems telling you were wrong for going to formula (as if it was any of their business). The nurses with my first son were a tad strong and not very helpful, but the ones with my second son were very encouraging and nice - so for me this term always went to the psycho moms that always put their nose in where it didn't belong.
I've always associated the nazi term with being strict, fanatic, ignorant of any other way of doing things -- not a mass murderer or anything like that. I'm sorry that it's become a common phrase and has the ability to offend people, but that's not going to stop people from using it - especially when the writer of this blog doesn't even bother getting both sides (which, in my opinion, is typical of what I hate the most about breastfeeding nazis. You're right, I'm wrong - no other options exist!)
Jen:
There are plenty of terms that have been common place in the past and that are no longer acceptable. I hope that the flippant use of the term nazi will soon belong on that list.
With regards to not getting the other side of the story, I'm not sure what you mean. You mean the story of people who think that Nazi is a fun term to throw around?
I think the word Nazi is used to highlight the authoritarian attitudes of some breast advocates (or any other group etc). I thought that was commonly known but the comments here suggest otherwise.
People are offended by anything these days so i am not surprised some people find it offensive, it really doesn't bother me. Its just a word, it cant hurt you.
Plumbob, there's a word for someone with an authoritarian attitude. It's "authoritarian".
It's fortunately not up to you to decide what is worth getting offended by for other people. I can think of many words I don't want me, people who share my values or my family called, and the biggest genocidal villains of the last century certainly make that list.
Get a life. Political correctness to a fault.
The militant breastfeeding mafia have infested the mainstream and here in the UK many of their storm troopers patrol hopsitals like Ilsa the Wicked warden emotionally destroying women who have babies that are failing to latch, who have no milk, whose nipples are red and stinging.
After leaving hospital with our darling daughter in less than 48 hours we were back after an accusing community midwife found our had lost 12% of her weight. Baby was crying hysterically, rooting around like a mad thing, chomping her sleeve and daddy's sleeve. The midwife said she might be put on a drip. We were the evil baby starvers, the failed breastfeeders.
At hopsital a breastfeeding nazi prodded my wife like some Josef Mengele lab assistant. Without asking permission she tweaked my wife raw nipples, hooked her up like some factory-farmed cow to an industrial breast pump. She didn't tell us what the gameplan was, when we might be able to leave. Baby was latched but with milk no coming through until the third or fith day in a 'normal' woman, how on earth was this breastfeeding malaky ever going to work? It's not. It's a lie. A total load of utter nonsense. It's as nutty as fruitarianism or somesuch extreme eating regimen.
I learned that in many health systems or cultures people use, variously, water, folk formulas, standard formulas, serums, are other methods to bridge this big milkless gap. The breastfeeding nazis tell you that this will bugger up your milk supply so starvation is the best policy, that babies only need a tiny bit of food and can happily exist in a hysterical mess for days on end. Complete nonsense. They can't. They get sick, dehydrated and hungry FAST.
As someone with an interest in science I wondered how on earth some of the benefits of breast feeding could even be proved. It would be unethical to take, say, 50 women and tell them to bottle feed and tell another 50 to breastfeed and compare results. So all the 'benefits' are based on surveying and observations and as a a social science graduate I realised that none of them were able to seperate out breast milk from sociologial factors.
Breast feeding mums tend to be the ones with the time, space and affluence to make a go of it, the ones who read to their babies, sing to them, constantly interact and when the babies are weaned they get a good diet. If you took a middle class family that gave all the middle class advantages to their kids, aside from breastfeeding, I'd bet the outcomes would be barely any different. Breast feeding is one factor out of millions that impact a child's outcomes.
Statistics for breast feeding are skewed. Around 90% of women leave hopsital breastfeeding but within to weeks the numbers drop rapidly, mostly due to screaming babies that never stop rooting for food. Women get a distorted picture that the vast majority now successfully breast feed and they if they fail they are the poor odd one out that's now going to witness a child developing a low IQ, ear infections, obesity, diabetes, etc.
I was breast fed and was sick every winter with headcold and ear and chest infections. My wife was a bottle baby and speaks half a dozen languages and rarely gets sick. We both eat a healthy wholefoods diet and engage in many natural health practices - we're not brainwashed by formula makers and big science. No way.
None of this is to say 'breast isn't best' but it's massively unrealistic for millions of women who are made to feel like worthless crap, intentionally or not, by the nazis and all illness has an emotional component so, yes, nazis often make new mums sick and harm babies. It's that simple.
David:
I'm sorry for what your wife went through. Despite all of that and as horrible as it is, that does not make those people Nazis. Did they cart your wife and baby off to a concentration camp and gas them? I don't think so.
Your comment is also, unfortunately, packed full of myths. I say this not to diminish the experience your wife went through, but I say it for the benefit of lurkers who may otherwise think there is truth to the information you have presented on milk supply, colustrum, benefits of breatsfeeding, etc.
[...] and so objectionable that they really shouldn’t be used. Yet they are thrown around lightly. Nazi is one. Retard is [...]
Ok then, how about milk freaks? Seriously, I wholly support breast feeding as a better alternative to formula, as does my Pediatrician wife who breast fed our childre. But I'm getting really tired of seing nasty, stretch-marked boobs hanging out in public. There is NO NEED in anyone ever knowing a woman is breast feeding if care is taken. Sure it's natural, but so is peeing and I'd get arrested for peeing in public. How about a little consideration for the rest of the world who doesn't want to see your business hanging out in public?
Jef:
I'm not going to bother rehashing here what I've already said in other places:
http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/03/13/what-gives-you-the-right/" rel="nofollow">What gives you the right?
http://www.phdinparenting.com/2010/01/27/covering-up-is-a-feminist-issue/" rel="nofollow">Covering up is a feminist issue
I always find it interesting how men compare breastfeeding to peeing, yet have no trouble lining up side by each to pee at urinals. If they don't look at each other's penises at the urinal I see no issue in not looking at women's breasts in public if they bother you so.
What gives me the right? well, the fact that I am a citizen of this nation and your rights do not trump mine. As far as covering up, common sense is obvious. I DO NOT advocate the "go hide and feed" mentality of alot of ppl who are oddly freaked out by breast feeding.
In truth, my main issue is that ppl who intentionally try to get in other's faces about their breastfeeding right are doing more harm than good. I've come in contact with many ppl who view it more as a political stance than the natural method of caring for a child. Just like any issue, your opinion is best for you, but may not be the opinion of others for many reasons you may not know.
As far as the lady below who questions why ppl may have an issue with seeing a stranger's breast in public if men don't look at each other's penises in the restroom...well, that's because the urinal conceals each man and there are no body parts out in the open.
Seriously, breastfeeding is great. It is natural, healthy(for mom and baby) and should be protected from morons trying to stifle it. But just a little bit of discretion would go a very long way to get the point across about it. We're not dealing with a violent war or refusal of civil rights. Those issues need a different type of show of support, this is a natural thing that represents a beautiful bond between mother and child and should be treated as such. To support the right, mother's should take the high road. Forcing the issue just makes it more divisive. You'll catch more fly with honey than with vinegar.
So, there's a big difference between "militance turns people off" (which I do agree with) and "hide your nasty boob, I don't want to see it" (which is more divisive than the militance point itself).
But, why should mothers have to 'take the high road' when others don't bother and say things like 'hide your nasty boobs'?
Jef, I'm going to assume you've never breastfed. So you have no clue how difficult it can be to nurse an actual moving, curious, human child while trying to keep them under cover or otherwise hidden from view. There is also the little matter of latching and unlatching.
Annie has an awesome post on the true meaning of using "discretion" you might want to read too...
sorry, I disagree. I've never gone around confronting ppl about their "nasty boob"(sorry the ill-placed humor came out wrong) like many of the over the top "advocates" of breastfeeding have, And no, being a man it's obvious I've never breastfed a child, but that doesn't mean I don't understand the practice that one goes through in doing so. After 4 children, who were all breastfed, as well as having lived with a lactation counselor(mother) and pediatrician(wife) I probably have a much better understanding than most men.
But my point still remains, I've met very few breastfeeding activists that were civil about other ppl's opinions on it. It seems like more an issue of ppl looking for a cause and the desire for drama than someone just concerned about feeding their child. And please dont give me the defense of you not getting respect for your beliefs. No one can stop you from feeding your child or changing your opinion about it, but how about just a little consideration for the ppl around you that don't want to see your private parts? I'm not even arguing against breastfeeding, if anything I agrue for it. But ppl that are intent on forcing their will on others do the cause for education on it no good.
Either way, this discussion is pointless because I won't change my opinion about not wanting to see some woman's breast out in public and you don't care and will intentionally feed in public out in the open just because you can. Yes it is your right, but how about my right not to have to see it, and yes averting my eyes and constantly being on guard to do so is a violation of my rights.
Having to avert your eyes from a legal practice is a violation of your rights? Take that one to the supreme court. I'm sure they'd love to hear it.
@Jef,
There's a lot of things I don't want to see in public, but I don't take that as a reason to pretend I have some created "rights" that are being violated. It is not your right to be kept from viewing anything you find distasteful.
Many people found interracial couples to be disgusting to look at, and used that as an excuse to keep interracial marriage illegal. Many people don't like to look at the handicapped. I guess we should keep those ugly gimps behind closed doors. Wouldn't want you to have to avert your eyes from a nontypical face or a deformed limb.
There's a woman who walks up the street almost every morning, near my medical school, not wearing enough to cover her belly fat, ill placed tattoos, or her stretchmarks. (All of which I have myself, incidentally, I just choose to hide them in public.) She isn't making an important health decision by showing her bare midriff, like breastfeeding moms are. Should I start ranting about my right to be protected from viewing her flabby, stretchmarked, tattooed belly?
See how ridiculous you sound? It's not about you, believe it or not. (Brace yourself, I know it's hard to realize that). And, considering this was a post about people who viciously attack people who promote breastfeeding, which you say you and your pediatrician wife (really? did you show her this thread and your response?) support, how can you defend pretending this is about you, having to "constantly be on guard" from having flabby boobies forced in your face? Who is forcing whose will on who? And for what justification?
@zchamu: It is amazing what some people regard as "rights". I've had numerous business students (whose assignments I docked) try to argue with me that there is a "right to profit". No, that may be a goal, even the primary goal, of being in business, but not a right and certainly not a right to be held above basic human rights.
hells yes!! go go go!!!
Jeff - you really have a problem with seeing women's breasts? Why?
A penis isn't being used to feed anyone. I hope not, at least.
thanks for proving my point. Maybe if you'd quit focusing on being a rights driven feminist and more on being a member of society, there would be a better discussion on breastfeeding and its benefits and stories about "feed-ins" and debates over showing in public wouldn't exist.
I'm done here but I'll make my point...you obviously care more about forcing your will on others that educating ppl about a healthier lifestyle. As usual when discussing or hearing ppl discuss breastfeeding, I get the distinct impression that here it is more a subject of feminist positions than parenting.
And yes my wife laughed when I showed her this because even she says the biggest opponent she has in trying to get young mothers to commit to breastfeeding are the middle aged women breastfeeding activists who are more political activist than mother and give it a bad name.
Either way, I support breastfeeding and think it's definitely better that formula, but I do believe that proper discretion(and the post with the pic of a woman in a burqa is a beautiful way to go over the top with your desc) may not be the law, but it is respectful of those around you without the desire to see your breast.
The same old defense of other women wearing low cut tops just sounds more like jealous feminist than someone with a valid poit. This over the top feminism is hurting the cause of reintroducing breastfeeding as a primary method, but as i said, I get the distinct impression this is more about getting to have a cause than it is about actually breastfeeding.
I will not respond or read anymore as this is getting tedious and lame, so feel free to rant and man bash to your heart's desire.....but as far as the "Nazi" label...Yeah I think it fits- Nazi: n, ...b : one who is likened to a German Nazi : a harshly domineering, dictatorial, or intolerant person. Please tolerate other ppl's desire NOT TO HAVE TO SEE YOU BOOB HANGING OUT.
So yeah, feminazis, breastfeeding nazis, hippies without a cause...whatever it is, sounds more like feminism is more important than motherhood some of the time.
Am I the only one who has actually never seen a "boob hanging out" when I've seen a mother NIP???
As someone said, it's not about you. It seems to me your personal hang up over the potential glimpse of a nipple is more important than a child's right to be fed. That's messed up.
Ah. Troll. Also? Lame.
Yeah, I think that guy is just kind of a $&#@-head.
I do have to say that I find it disturbing having to constantly separate myself from the bad examples of lacto-moms. It's getting like being part of an infamous club everytime people find out I work for lactation education. We really need to work on the public image to further the education and standing instead of being such separatists of the opinion that it's our way or the highway. My husband feels exactly like that guy, and I understand the point. It's not about "seeing" anything, it's more about the attitude people are putting out there.
Seriously? I wish I wasn't subscribed to this thread.
There are more people on this thread ranting about militant breastfeeders than there are militant breastfeeders. I have never met anyone who shoves their boobs in anyone's face, or who is more concerned with feminism than feeding their newborn. And I trained as as midwife. Calling people names like "Nazi" and painting them to be evil boogeymen does NOT make it so, and is even worse coming from people who claim to support breastfeeding.
Scientific literature researches obstacles to breastfeeding. Most common? My husband will have an issue with it, think I'm less sexy. Next? Being judged for it, especially in public, by trolls like these. Not mentioned? Those damn middle aged militant boob in my face thrusting political feminists!!
The hostility from these comments is seriously upsetting and disturbing. And is ample proof that posts like this are necessary.
@MomTFH:
I find the comments annoying and upsetting too. My hope, however, is that they are not reflective of society overall. My hope is that generally most people go about their lives without taking particular notice of how a woman chooses to feed her baby. At least my experience with nursing two children whenever and wherever has shown me that most people do not care. There are jerks out there, for sure, and I think that this post is a magnet for them because they are the ones who go off to Google searching on the term "Breastfeeding Nazi" and land here.
How about separating yourself from guys like Jef? Who is putting out the attitude? The people who legitimately support a healthy practice or someone who is ranting about ugly boobs and mysterious feminist conspiracies?
Jef, translated:
Harshly domineering and dictatorial...like, let's see, someone telling women that they can't feed their kid the best way (like your wife did for all four of your kids), and accusing them of having bizarre ulterior motives (like "feminism" - we all know how motherhood and breastfeeding are such a stereotypical feminist cause - WHAT?) , and being COMPLETELY intolerant of their breastfeeding in public. Right.
Please tolerate MY desire to control your behavior and your feeding of your child! Please tolerate my HARSH ranting about your motives! Please ignore my attitude when I complain about your ugly stretchmarked boobs! Please tolerate my domineering attitude about your feeding choices!
Breastfeeding is not a cause, but harassing women about it is?
Oh, the irony, it burns!
Oh, good point about the search engine thing. Ha, well, I'm glad they're ranting on your poston it instead of my older one.
I just can't imagine telling people who are defending a fairly non controversially healthy practice that needs encouragement that they have a bad attitude while calling them names and being outrageously judgmental and rude.
The world is full of shallow, mean, hypocrites. I am still an idealist, however, and it still makes me frustrated when I see it.
Hi, I use that term sometimes, meant to be silly, and never looked at it like that.
Sorry ladies! Won't be using that again!