Its never to early to control the potty mouth. But, I have a question. Or really an opinion. Personally, I'm not sure 'Poo' is a bad word. So, I guess my question is, do you think poo is a bad word?
ha!!! & the word (& answer) "poo" is big over here too with my 5 year old. its his answer to everything - it's an interesting developmental phase that's for sure!
I was also wondering about the context, since "poo" isn't inherently offensive or inappropriate.
My 9th grade students filled out a sheet a remarkable amount like this one, and it was fairly common for the "what I did" blank to say "said shit" and the "what I should have done" category to read "said poo."
Oh dear lord. What on earth is "wrong" with "poo"? Or saying "poo"?
There are so many things *wrong* with this picture I don't even know where to begin.
Someone pointed out to me recently that we tend to make jokes out of the things that scare us. So of course young children are all about the "potty humor" -- they are working through their own fears about it. Why would I squelch that? Personally, I find it freeing to let go my own inhibitions and engage in "potty talk" with my 3 yo. He thinks it's hysterical. My 6 yo just rolls her eyes at us. :)
I do not homeschool, but if my child came home with this, I would definitely be thinking considering it. At the very least a conversation with the teacher.
I don't think there is anything wrong with poo in the right context. However, when you say "what would you like to eat for breakfast?" and the answer is "poo". And you ask "what did you learn at school today?" and the answer is "poo". And you say "what book would you like to read?" and the answer again is "poo". It can be a bit tiresome.
I don't have any problem with the teacher's approach. I like the fact that she asks students to demonstrate that they understand what they did wrong and that she asks them to come up with solutions. Certainly much better than writing "I will not say poo" 50 times, which is likely what we would have had to do in school.
I'm laughing so hard at this because we're currently in the answer-to-everything-is-poo stage. We're laughing when it's joking and overlooking it when it's not in context we'd like to encourage. Either way, I just love when they find the power in a new word, especially one that can push other's buttons
Hmm I saw this and assumed you were criticizing the approach. I don't have any problem with language that isn't harming anyone, annoying or not. Words only have the power we give them. I definitely don't think expressing yourself is ever "wrong", although consequences (hurting feelings, getting in trouble if it is against the rules) should be discussed.
I think I would be more comfortable if the sheet said "What I did that was against the rules" rather than using the W-word.
There is something I love about this. I'm not going to comment on the strategy this teacher is using to redirect behaviour (although I think its a pretty positive one, focusing on the choice made as wrong rather than the child itself and also focusing on the choice that could have been made, which teaches children to be in charge of their own behaviour and to self-regulate which is a handy skill to have, when negotiating through this crazy social world of ours. After all, our jobs are to somewhat properly socialize our children and part of that is when it is and when it isn't appropriate to say, 'poo' or 'booger' or insert word of choice) because when faced with over twenty 6 year olds you need some sort of management or there would be mutiny on the ship. That is my non-comment. But what I love is how under the wrong, 'poo' is in the speech bubble and under what should have been done, the speech bubble is empty with 'poo' floating off in the universe at large. Hysterical! As a grade one teacher, I love this kid's writing!
The figure in the second picture is totally smiling and that cracks me up.
I worked in a daycare and was a nanny; the everything is "poo" stage is annoying at best. I just ignored it and if the child didn't answer me (would you rather have X or Y for snack?), I chose for them and moved along.
I have no idea how I'll deal with it at home 24/7. What have you been doing? Anything that seems to work?
I don't think the 'poo" is supposed to be floating off into the universe at large. I think it is part of the sentence on what he should have done, i.e. "Not say poo". Although I did quite like the empty speech bubble and the hand over his mouth.
What would create the desired outcome then of not having a 6 year old distract his classmates by talking about poo all the time when they should be doing their work?
LOL! Poo (and all the variants of), pee, vomit, blood - it all gets used by my children as if it's the highest form of comic art. I'm not sure when this stage is over... I'm thinking likely never.
My favorite page of this? He's covering his mouth in the second picture. Excellent.
we've been thru the everything poo stage in answer to every question - very quickly learned that if a choice isn't given and clearly stated then good things just don't happen.
why "poo" though? but i guess we're missing the context wherein the "poo" was uttered. btw my wee guy has had pointed personal remarks about body odour made by his teacher, among other barbed comments from her. maybe i should institute this kind of correctional strategy with her before i report her mean ass to the principal?
How timely! My son is almost 3 and has picked up the habit of talking about pooppoop and peepee CONSTANTLY from a little boy he's in daycare with. It's being exaggerated at the moment by potty training, but I find it maddening, and I'm surprised by how strongly I dislike it. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done, or if it's like him saying a swear word and I should just ignore it. Will he just STOP one day or do I need to intervene? I'm with Annie on this one - it annoys the stuffing out of me. The nonsense talk and the poop talk - mostly because I want him to use *proper words* and *answer my questions*, not because it offends my sensibilities.
Since I'm not a first grade teacher and I don't have a child anywhere NEAR the stage of life where the answer to everything is 'poo,' I have no idea what it must take to keep things under control or stay patient. But I wonder: is this really the most effective means of teaching a child that one behavior is undesirable and the other is not?
No! You just talk to the child and explain why saying poo is wrong -- and you should have a good reason for this because if it's not a good reason then the child will simply hear "Because I said so".
My kids say poo, but so do I from time to time. We find it funny like the CAD hubby. But they don't say poo in front of most people because I told them that some people don't think it's very funny. They caught on right away, and I have two at speaking age, currently 5 and 3.
How magical it must seem to have such compliant children! So magical indeed that discipline becomes a one-size-fits-all approach. Simply parent THIS way, and all your problems are solved. Like magic! *snort*
It's not magical and I didn't describe any discipline. Discipline is a whole other discussion. My suggesting is simply to respect the child by giving him the reason why he should do or not do something -- that is the starting point to conscious learning, otherwise you are simply using operant conditioning (like dog training). i.e. The child doesn't say poo because he doesn't want to write another sheet.
Kids who say poo could understand why they shouldn't say poo if an adult explains it ... however, in the specific case of saying poo, there is not a reason that I can think, which makes sense to a child, not to say it. However there are good reasons not to answer a question with the word "poo" if that isn't the answer, or not to scream "poo" in the mall.
And, to be honest, I'm sure that the teacher did explain to the kid about saying poo. This was probably not the first step.
I am blessed with great children, you are right about that!
I think perhaps you are giving the parents/teacher who may choose this approach (and the child subject to it) too little credit.
Using "poo" as an answer to everything and as a way to fill any moment of silence has been a pattern with my son for a long time now. I've seen it at home and I'm sure the teacher has seen it at school for a long time too. I have explained to him several times why it is not appropriate to say "poo" in certain circumstances, yet it hasn't sunk in. I don't think any teacher or parent would use this technique instead of having a discussion with the child. I think it is used to reinforce the lesson when the child is obviously not internalizing or absorbing what has been discussed.
When I was in university, I often volunteered to tutor other students because I found that my comprehension of things was enhanced by having to explain them to other people. This exercise is similar, in that my son had to sit down, focus, and demonstrate that he had understood, versus just saying "okay" and then forgetting again the next minute.
I don't think this would be effective if it was the only thing done. However, when it is part of a package of teaching the child what is appropriate and trying to reinforce that, then I think it could be effective.
This "poo" scenario is perhaps a simplified example, but I think where it is used more often in the school is in situations where, for example, a child has pushed another child, damaged school property, etc. Rather than just being punished and/or lectured, the student is given an opportunity to demonstrate that they understand what they did wrong and what should have been done instead.
What I'm saying is that there is no "simple" when it comes to parenting, and your response suggested there was.
Whether you opt for a rational conversational approach with your children, a non-punative approach, an explaination, or a punishment, children will be children. They may say poo, regardless.
Yes, kids "could" understand why they "shouldn't" say poo in certain situations if an adult explains it. This, however, doesn't guarantee that a kid won't say poo. There is no guarantee, no matter how "good" or "great" a child is (what is a great child, btw?). Some children push limits, test boundaries, and go out on their own, in spite of our best attempts to reel them in, to explain "proper" behavior, or give "good reasons". Children don't always listen (nor, in my opinion, should they). In fact, I'd argue, those children who do always listen when explained to (or when conditioned) may have quite a bit more trouble managing the world when there's no one around to explain why not.
As for no discipline, there is and should be discipline in all aspects of parenting. Discipline doesn't necessarily equal punishment.
Yes, kids “could” understand why they “shouldn’t” say poo in certain situations if an adult explains it. This, however, doesn’t guarantee that a kid won’t say poo.
Exactly...because it is so damn funny (or so they tell me).
When I first saw the picture I thought it was age appropriate and a quick reminder to a child of what happened and what their choice might be for next time. Those are actually two steps in Glasser's reality therapy.
I'm surprised how many people seem to be saying "That won't work. She should/I do this. This works." Maybe my kids are not the typical 3 and 5 year olds that I thought they were. Rarely when we have an ongoing issue does anything "work." Generally the issues are phases and while I do need to respond and teach, nothing I do "works." What I mean by that is nothing stops the issue by itself right away. Sometimes things become habits. Sometimes it ends up being a control issue. In the end, either I decide that I was wrong and it (whatever it is) is okay after all, or I keep trying to help/teach/remind my kids of the desired result. Eventually, (hopefully) it becomes a non issue.
Our DD has a great joke. She whispers "I have a joke for you" then as you lean closer she shouts "Poo!" and rolls over laughing (shes 4.5) at first it bugged me, then I decided no point getting upset or trying to change it - so I joined in - now she rolls her eyes at DH and I when we tell her we have a joke. "Poo" only lasted a short time.
We also spent many hours singing "baby Poo" by the Arrogant worms together - the more we encouraged it the less it happened. And when she answered questions with "Poo" we gave her "poo" - we'd choose for her if a choice was made - otherwise sub Poo for whatever word she used. She found the whole thing hilarious.
again things only lasted a short time.
I like the teachers approach, however, I really dislike the word choice - 'wrong'.
So, this approach is used not specifically to stop the use of the word "poo," but to stop the use of any word that is being overused to the point of distraction? I think I get it.
I love that the second picture has a word balloon with nothing in it. Kind of like it's showing the absence of the "poo." Love it!
I don't see why people take issue with the word "wrong." It simply means that school is the wrong venue to repeat 'poo' to the point of distraction and it is wrong to distract classmates.
I like this method though. It allows for creativity and reflection on the correct and incorrect action for the place. It isn't harsh or overlong and it's perfect for a teacher dealing with a classroom full of students.
Amusingly, my 20-month-old son is finally saying "poo poo." No wonder?! We say "poo poo?" to him about ten times a day in the vague hope that he'll nod or say "yes poo poo."
Monday, March 28, 2011
Reader Comments (69)
I think that's pretty clear! :-)
I read this article - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/us/27sexting.html? today and saw your post, reminding me that it is never too early to teach responsibility.
Well Shit, I guess I'd fail Grade 1.
Its never to early to control the potty mouth. But, I have a question. Or really an opinion. Personally, I'm not sure 'Poo' is a bad word. So, I guess my question is, do you think poo is a bad word?
I also do not think poo is a bad word
I think it depends on the context. At the moment, the answer to every question is "poo". It is getting to be a bit much.
My 4 year old is learning it all from her schoolmates. I dont get it, why is potty language so fun. I guess because it is not allowed.
ha!!! & the word (& answer) "poo" is big over here too with my 5 year old. its his answer to everything - it's an interesting developmental phase that's for sure!
I was also wondering about the context, since "poo" isn't inherently offensive or inappropriate.
My 9th grade students filled out a sheet a remarkable amount like this one, and it was fairly common for the "what I did" blank to say "said shit" and the "what I should have done" category to read "said poo."
:D
Oh dear lord. What on earth is "wrong" with "poo"? Or saying "poo"?
There are so many things *wrong* with this picture I don't even know where to begin.
Someone pointed out to me recently that we tend to make jokes out of the things that scare us. So of course young children are all about the "potty humor" -- they are working through their own fears about it. Why would I squelch that? Personally, I find it freeing to let go my own inhibitions and engage in "potty talk" with my 3 yo. He thinks it's hysterical. My 6 yo just rolls her eyes at us. :)
I do not homeschool, but if my child came home with this, I would definitely be thinking considering it. At the very least a conversation with the teacher.
He he he! I love that he/she got to write poo twice :)
Amy:
I don't think there is anything wrong with poo in the right context. However, when you say "what would you like to eat for breakfast?" and the answer is "poo". And you ask "what did you learn at school today?" and the answer is "poo". And you say "what book would you like to read?" and the answer again is "poo". It can be a bit tiresome.
I don't have any problem with the teacher's approach. I like the fact that she asks students to demonstrate that they understand what they did wrong and that she asks them to come up with solutions. Certainly much better than writing "I will not say poo" 50 times, which is likely what we would have had to do in school.
Not sure that the child "learned" anything. He or she probably already knew they shouldn't say poo.
I'm laughing so hard at this because we're currently in the answer-to-everything-is-poo stage. We're laughing when it's joking and overlooking it when it's not in context we'd like to encourage. Either way, I just love when they find the power in a new word, especially one that can push other's buttons
Hmm I saw this and assumed you were criticizing the approach. I don't have any problem with language that isn't harming anyone, annoying or not. Words only have the power we give them. I definitely don't think expressing yourself is ever "wrong", although consequences (hurting feelings, getting in trouble if it is against the rules) should be discussed.
I think I would be more comfortable if the sheet said "What I did that was against the rules" rather than using the W-word.
Love the hair & the smiles. That second one doesn't really LOOK sorry :)
I was going to ask was the big deal about saying poo is, but if it's the answer for everything I can see how it would not be amusing.
Ha ha! I love it! :D
There is something I love about this. I'm not going to comment on the strategy this teacher is using to redirect behaviour (although I think its a pretty positive one, focusing on the choice made as wrong rather than the child itself and also focusing on the choice that could have been made, which teaches children to be in charge of their own behaviour and to self-regulate which is a handy skill to have, when negotiating through this crazy social world of ours. After all, our jobs are to somewhat properly socialize our children and part of that is when it is and when it isn't appropriate to say, 'poo' or 'booger' or insert word of choice) because when faced with over twenty 6 year olds you need some sort of management or there would be mutiny on the ship. That is my non-comment. But what I love is how under the wrong, 'poo' is in the speech bubble and under what should have been done, the speech bubble is empty with 'poo' floating off in the universe at large. Hysterical! As a grade one teacher, I love this kid's writing!
The figure in the second picture is totally smiling and that cracks me up.
I worked in a daycare and was a nanny; the everything is "poo" stage is annoying at best. I just ignored it and if the child didn't answer me (would you rather have X or Y for snack?), I chose for them and moved along.
I have no idea how I'll deal with it at home 24/7. What have you been doing? Anything that seems to work?
Three times!
themombshell:
I don't think the 'poo" is supposed to be floating off into the universe at large. I think it is part of the sentence on what he should have done, i.e. "Not say poo". Although I did quite like the empty speech bubble and the hand over his mouth.
Agreed! This approach doesn't create the desired outcomes.
What would create the desired outcome then of not having a 6 year old distract his classmates by talking about poo all the time when they should be doing their work?
LOL! Poo (and all the variants of), pee, vomit, blood - it all gets used by my children as if it's the highest form of comic art. I'm not sure when this stage is over... I'm thinking likely never.
My favorite page of this? He's covering his mouth in the second picture. Excellent.
I loved that too Kelly!
we've been thru the everything poo stage in answer to every question - very quickly learned that if a choice isn't given and clearly stated then good things just don't happen.
why "poo" though? but i guess we're missing the context wherein the "poo" was uttered.
btw my wee guy has had pointed personal remarks about body odour made by his teacher, among other barbed comments from her. maybe i should institute this kind of correctional strategy with her before i report her mean ass to the principal?
How timely! My son is almost 3 and has picked up the habit of talking about pooppoop and peepee CONSTANTLY from a little boy he's in daycare with. It's being exaggerated at the moment by potty training, but I find it maddening, and I'm surprised by how strongly I dislike it. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done, or if it's like him saying a swear word and I should just ignore it. Will he just STOP one day or do I need to intervene? I'm with Annie on this one - it annoys the stuffing out of me. The nonsense talk and the poop talk - mostly because I want him to use *proper words* and *answer my questions*, not because it offends my sensibilities.
The answer to everything in our house is 'bum'. Kinda sorta curious what DS's "What I did wrong" sheet would look like...
Just told hubby about this - he's now sitting doing his CAD work singing "poo, poo poo, poo!" rofl :D
(that pic still cracks me up - I just love that empty speech bubble!)
Since I'm not a first grade teacher and I don't have a child anywhere NEAR the stage of life where the answer to everything is 'poo,' I have no idea what it must take to keep things under control or stay patient. But I wonder: is this really the most effective means of teaching a child that one behavior is undesirable and the other is not?
No! You just talk to the child and explain why saying poo is wrong -- and you should have a good reason for this because if it's not a good reason then the child will simply hear "Because I said so".
My kids say poo, but so do I from time to time. We find it funny like the CAD hubby. But they don't say poo in front of most people because I told them that some people don't think it's very funny. They caught on right away, and I have two at speaking age, currently 5 and 3.
How magical it must seem to have such compliant children! So magical indeed that discipline becomes a one-size-fits-all approach. Simply parent THIS way, and all your problems are solved. Like magic! *snort*
I sense mockery :)
It's not magical and I didn't describe any discipline. Discipline is a whole other discussion. My suggesting is simply to respect the child by giving him the reason why he should do or not do something -- that is the starting point to conscious learning, otherwise you are simply using operant conditioning (like dog training). i.e. The child doesn't say poo because he doesn't want to write another sheet.
Kids who say poo could understand why they shouldn't say poo if an adult explains it ... however, in the specific case of saying poo, there is not a reason that I can think, which makes sense to a child, not to say it. However there are good reasons not to answer a question with the word "poo" if that isn't the answer, or not to scream "poo" in the mall.
And, to be honest, I'm sure that the teacher did explain to the kid about saying poo. This was probably not the first step.
I am blessed with great children, you are right about that!
Perfect Dad:
I think perhaps you are giving the parents/teacher who may choose this approach (and the child subject to it) too little credit.
Using "poo" as an answer to everything and as a way to fill any moment of silence has been a pattern with my son for a long time now. I've seen it at home and I'm sure the teacher has seen it at school for a long time too. I have explained to him several times why it is not appropriate to say "poo" in certain circumstances, yet it hasn't sunk in. I don't think any teacher or parent would use this technique instead of having a discussion with the child. I think it is used to reinforce the lesson when the child is obviously not internalizing or absorbing what has been discussed.
When I was in university, I often volunteered to tutor other students because I found that my comprehension of things was enhanced by having to explain them to other people. This exercise is similar, in that my son had to sit down, focus, and demonstrate that he had understood, versus just saying "okay" and then forgetting again the next minute.
Sarah:
I don't think this would be effective if it was the only thing done. However, when it is part of a package of teaching the child what is appropriate and trying to reinforce that, then I think it could be effective.
This "poo" scenario is perhaps a simplified example, but I think where it is used more often in the school is in situations where, for example, a child has pushed another child, damaged school property, etc. Rather than just being punished and/or lectured, the student is given an opportunity to demonstrate that they understand what they did wrong and what should have been done instead.
Perfect Dad:
I think you did describe discipline. Discipline means to teach. More on that in http://www.phdinparenting.com/2008/10/20/my-discipline-spectrum/" rel="nofollow">My Discipline Spectrum.
What I'm saying is that there is no "simple" when it comes to parenting, and your response suggested there was.
Whether you opt for a rational conversational approach with your children, a non-punative approach, an explaination, or a punishment, children will be children. They may say poo, regardless.
Yes, kids "could" understand why they "shouldn't" say poo in certain situations if an adult explains it. This, however, doesn't guarantee that a kid won't say poo. There is no guarantee, no matter how "good" or "great" a child is (what is a great child, btw?). Some children push limits, test boundaries, and go out on their own, in spite of our best attempts to reel them in, to explain "proper" behavior, or give "good reasons". Children don't always listen (nor, in my opinion, should they). In fact, I'd argue, those children who do always listen when explained to (or when conditioned) may have quite a bit more trouble managing the world when there's no one around to explain why not.
As for no discipline, there is and should be discipline in all aspects of parenting. Discipline doesn't necessarily equal punishment.
Hit enter too quickly.
Discipline doesn’t necessarily equal punishment.
Discipline should always equal guidance.
Yes, kids “could” understand why they “shouldn’t” say poo in certain situations if an adult explains it. This, however, doesn’t guarantee that a kid won’t say poo.
Exactly...because it is so damn funny (or so they tell me).
When I first saw the picture I thought it was age appropriate and a quick reminder to a child of what happened and what their choice might be for next time. Those are actually two steps in Glasser's reality therapy.
I'm surprised how many people seem to be saying "That won't work. She should/I do this. This works." Maybe my kids are not the typical 3 and 5 year olds that I thought they were. Rarely when we have an ongoing issue does anything "work." Generally the issues are phases and while I do need to respond and teach, nothing I do "works." What I mean by that is nothing stops the issue by itself right away. Sometimes things become habits. Sometimes it ends up being a control issue. In the end, either I decide that I was wrong and it (whatever it is) is okay after all, or I keep trying to help/teach/remind my kids of the desired result. Eventually, (hopefully) it becomes a non issue.
Or at least less of an issue. Maybe an issue for a different reason.
Our DD has a great joke. She whispers "I have a joke for you" then as you lean closer she shouts "Poo!" and rolls over laughing (shes 4.5) at first it bugged me, then I decided no point getting upset or trying to change it - so I joined in - now she rolls her eyes at DH and I when we tell her we have a joke. "Poo" only lasted a short time.
We also spent many hours singing "baby Poo" by the Arrogant worms together - the more we encouraged it the less it happened. And when she answered questions with "Poo" we gave her "poo" - we'd choose for her if a choice was made - otherwise sub Poo for whatever word she used. She found the whole thing hilarious.
again things only lasted a short time.
I like the teachers approach, however, I really dislike the word choice - 'wrong'.
that made me lol but i feel you on the only response to things...
all poo aside - i empathize with your situation of course- no one knows until they are in your shoes...i think the art itself is totally frame worthy
it's becoming kind of funny - i'm also pretty tired
i want to draw pictures of my mistakes and what i should have done... i like the use of the creative side for "discipline"
So, this approach is used not specifically to stop the use of the word "poo," but to stop the use of any word that is being overused to the point of distraction? I think I get it.
I love that the second picture has a word balloon with nothing in it. Kind of like it's showing the absence of the "poo." Love it!
I don't see why people take issue with the word "wrong." It simply means that school is the wrong venue to repeat 'poo' to the point of distraction and it is wrong to distract classmates.
I like this method though. It allows for creativity and reflection on the correct and incorrect action for the place. It isn't harsh or overlong and it's perfect for a teacher dealing with a classroom full of students.
Amusingly, my 20-month-old son is finally saying "poo poo." No wonder?! We say "poo poo?" to him about ten times a day in the vague hope that he'll nod or say "yes poo poo."